Working Hours

Jimhum

Hi,

Just a quick question regarding working hours, probably going to get an answer I don't like but I want to ask and get some sort of answer anyway!

I work for a large company in an entry level position. In order to complete my job there are certain procedures that must be carried out at both the start and end of the working day. The company in question insists that these activities be completed in time that is not paid for by the company. This results in staff in both my role and similar ones being required to attend work for a minimum of 30 minutes per day to complete required tasks whilst not being paid.

Is this an acceptable policy? The officially recognised union seems unwilling to challenge on this issue. I know it seems petty but this works out as nearly a month's worth of paid hours being worked over the year without pay. In addition, working these 30 minutes tends to lead to an overrun sometimes totalling an hour a day. Any thoughts?

I know in the current job market I should be thankful, and I am, but I feel the company is taking advantage for this same reason!

Many thanks.

Sambucus_Nigra

What sort of things?

Jimhum

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

What sort of things?

Don't want to be too specific in case it reveals the business sector I work in but I am unable to complete the core elements of my job without these activities being completed. It is expected that I start with these activities the same moment I begin to be paid. Documented company procedures outline activities to be completed in this "extra time".

Evilm

Are you salaried or hourly?

Is your salary.hourly rate very near minimum wage?

Ideally I'd need to know your salary and the amount of hours this takes you to a week but I can understand if you don't want to post it here. If you don't want to then put the following in this calculator: http://www.salaryconverter.co.uk/

- Your salary and your 'paid' hours - will give you your official hourly rate if you don't know it.
- Your hourly rate and your 'paid' number of hours - will give you your salary if your contract is written hourly.
- Your salary and your total hours worked including unpaid a week - will give you your effective hourly rate.

Does the last of those calculations take you below minimum wage?

Jimhum

Evilm wrote: »

Are you salaried or hourly?

Is your salary.hourly rate very near minimum wage?

Ideally I'd need to know your salary and the amount of hours this takes you to a week but I can understand if you don't want to post it here. If you don't want to then put the following in this calculator:

- Your salary and your 'paid' hours - will give you your official hourly rate if you don't know it.
- Your hourly rate and your 'paid' number of hours - will give you your salary if your contract is written hourly.
- Your salary and your total hours worked including unpaid a week - will give you your effective hourly rate.

Does the last of those calculations take you below minimum wage?

No.

My contract states "140 hours per 4 week period". Including this "accepted extra time" increases this figure to 150. If you include the real time taken to perform the tasks, it's probably around 160.

McKneff

You cant expect really meaningfull advice if you dont give proper details.

What activities are you expected to do before you start to get paid.

Evilm

Jimhum wrote: »

No.

My contract states "140 hours per 4 week period". Including this "accepted extra time" increases this figure to 150. If you include the real time taken to perform the tasks, it's probably around 160.

IMO unless your wage is under £6.94 the likelihood is the there is little you can do then.

Math on that in case anyone can spot an error:

160/4 = 40 (hours worked)
140/4 = 35 (hours contracted)
£6.08 (minimum wage)/35 (hours contracted)* 40 (hours worked) = £6.94.

Even then you'd have to be able to prove that it was taking that long to finish this up and that you were definitely working the extra time.

Jimhum

McKneff wrote: »

You cant expect really meaningfull advice if you dont give proper details.

What activities are you expected to do before you start to get paid.

We are in a public facing environment, certain things must be done before opening or after doors close. Employees are paid from doors open to doors closing.

Before work it is expected that we attend mandatory daily meeting (10 minutes) and that we complete maintenance/daily servicing on two machines.

After doors close, there are various admin tasks/ reports to be performed/ reviewed on computer systems as well as totalling up multiple cash tills etc.

Sambucus_Nigra

Jimhum wrote: »

We are in a public facing environment, certain things must be done before opening or after doors close. Employees are paid from doors open to doors closing.

Before work it is expected that we attend mandatory daily meeting (10 minutes) and that we complete maintenance/daily servicing on two machines.

After doors close, there are various admin tasks/ reports to be performed/ reviewed on computer systems as well as totalling up multiple cash tills etc.

We have to ask Jim - as with some of the people we get on here, it could be 'they expect me to get dressed, have my breakfast and travel to work before they start paying me'...

Personally, I work along the lines of 'once I'm through the door, and being paid by the business, I do work for the business. Until then, I don't do work for the business' - but I've not had a job like that in years and do lots of additional hours because I work for a charity and love it.

If they can't afford to pay you for the extra tasks, perhaps you should all stop going in early, attending meetings, staying late and suggesting they put the prices up to enable you all being paid for all the hours you do for the business. I don't think there is alot you can do unless you all do it together and negotiate being paid for the hours. Perhaps ALL of you need to join a union, and put a grievance in once you have all joined.

Mrs_Arcanum

Think what the OP is questioning is the difference between being ready to work on time (as the doors open) and tasks that are "required" as part of the job before opening.

Most places do not expect you to be anything other than ready to start work on time and pay from the point you start work.

When DH had to have his paper suit on at work, the time taken to put this on was not within the working hours. Just as taking off your coat & shoving things in a locker is outside working hours. I am working from the point my computer and phone are logged on & ready.

It does seem sad that companies are taking the mick just because times are hard and there are more workers than jobs. Would seem very counter productive. Resentful staff do not give their best at work nor will they go the extra mile to help.

DVardysShadow

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

It does seem sad that companies are taking the mick just because times are hard and there are more workers than jobs. Would seem very counter productive. Resentful staff do not give their best at work nor will they go the extra mile to help.

It is sad. The philosophy appears to be 'the floggings will continue until morale improves'