Ian Duncan Smith Launches Attack on Disabled Workers

Parva

I'm too young to remember Clement Atlee (at 45!). Bring back Maggie I say! I don't agree with a lot of things she did but the lady had balls and you knew that what she said wasn't BS, which it is these days. Anyway, apologies for continuing the politics theme.

ineed

Parva wrote: »

I'm too young to remember Clement Atlee (at 45!). Bring back Maggie I say! I don't agree with a lot of things she did but the lady had balls and you knew that what she said wasn't BS, which it is these days. Anyway, apologies for continuing the politics theme.

I'm to young to remember Margaret Thatcher at 24, age shouldn't really come into it. Then again i've always been overly interested in political and historical affairs, among other things.
I blame it on my parents insisting on my visiting museums and the like every holiday as a child .

Can I ask, not having a go or anything or trying to start a debate, if you didn't agree with alot of her politics why would you want her back in? Sorry I'm just curious is all.

cit_k

leveller2911 wrote: »

Personally I have time/respect for people like Frank Field but you wouldn't like him as he reported the need for the overhaul of the benefit system so he's def taboo with lefties , he has integrity and IMO is one of the few honest MP,s.The big problem for me is as soon as a genuine problem is highlighted (unafordable welfare bill,NHS waste etc ) the lefties shout fowl with accusations of rascism,bigotry and vitriol rather than having a coherant debate.

Think your naive if you think the politicians of old were any more honest than those of today,they were just as dishonest but made a better job of concealing it.There are exceptions but a handful at best.

If your interested read the following link ,IMO it sums up the feeling of the vast majority of the public. At least its thought provoking rather than the poor excuse for journalism in the OP.
http://www.frankfield.com/latest-news/news.aspx?p=102150

I have never found that integrity and Frank Field sit well together.

He is not much better than IDS, most likely the reason cameron chose him to be poverty czar.

He is just another evil person, determined to spread propaganda and hatred to penalise those worse off in society.

cit_k

Parva wrote: »

I'm too young to remember Clement Atlee (at 45!). Bring back Maggie I say! I don't agree with a lot of things she did but the lady had balls and you knew that what she said wasn't BS, which it is these days. Anyway, apologies for continuing the politics theme.

Actually, most of what she said was BS, as history has proven.

leveller2911

ineed wrote: »

Why are you against benefits in general? I'm genuinely curious, it may just be the way I'm interpreting you, I hope it is.

I think a welfare/benefit system is fundamental to a modern society.Work should pay and no household on benefits should have a total benefits income greater than the average income of a family in work. I have always lived a Council estate and see it every day.Workshy families who either haven't worked for years or never worked.Where is the incentive for people to go out and work when its handed to them on a plate and no I don't read the Daily Mail.

For years with the unemployed related benefits we have had the carrot rather than the stick and its time in may cases to use the stick.I am aiming this at the long term unemployed ,many of whom don't want to work.

I'm in favour of a system where people earn the right to benefits but make allowances for the genuinely disabled.You work you gain credits and the more years of NI contributions you pay the higher the pension or benefit you receive.But there should be a time limit on the number of years of benefits anyone can receive during their working life.We would all be very lucky to go through our working lives without the need to apply for benefits at some point in time.





I think people on sickness benefits should have reassessments every few years to check they are getting the right amount still and to check changes in conditions. But I don't believe people should be bullied, stigmatised and victimised just because they need to claim benefits. Look up anywhere online, including this forum and the other MSE benefits forum, see the horror stories for yourself surrounding the current sickness benefit reforms.
I couldn't comment on other benefits, I have no knowledge of them.

The problem is a sizable minority don't want to work, they want the rest of society to keep them.We had over 1,000,000 people on incapacity benefit , its an enormous number now compared to the rest of Europe its huge.Now EU work/employment legislation restricts lifting heavy weights,repetative manual work etc so how is it we had so many on IB when the rest of Europe didn't?.. How do you diagnose a bad back? how can you prove someone doesn't have a bad back?.I see 3 people daily who were on IB and yet 2 ride 900cc sports motorbikes and the 3rd person if fit enough to climb a 6ft fence and work under his car but not fit for work,anecdotal yes but I and many see it every day and I have no reason to lie. I am not saying everyone is rooking the system but many are.Work should always pay more than a life on benefits



I think most of the public feel like me, they see riots, they see genuine sick people labeled scrounger's by an uncaring government.

Obviously not ,otherwise Labour would have won the Election and carried on increasing the Public Sector and paying more out in benefits than they took in in Tax receipts ,so no most people don't feel like you.

As for the riots, how many people rioted and stole food because they were hungry? answer none.The riots were down to greed, pure and simple greed, they wanted the 50" Plasma TV , £150 Nike Trainers etc etc .Nothing to do with being disaffected with Society , the vast majority probably couldn't even be bothered to vote.

They see anger and panic everywhere. They see a country on its knees and they see a cold narrow minded ignorant leader moaning about the previous government yet again, as if they were solely responsible for the entire worlds economies downfall. Cameron's own back benchers are turning against him.

The country isn't on its knees,stop being so dramatic.If you want to see that pop on a plane to Greece, now theres a country in turmoil.Governments will always blame the previous one for its woes, nothing new.The problem the Condems have is they have not created growth,which we need badly,invest in young people with apprenticeships ,we need to start manufacturing again.

I didn't read the original article, or yours, believing any opinion written; I just see the statements made by IDS and it reinforces my opinion of him, and the rest of the current government.

So what are you reading?,just out of interest.I'm genuinely interested why you think the country is on its knees.The Eurozone may well be in big trouble soon which will have an effect on us but its not time to get to the bunker yet, far from it in fact.

leveller2911

cit_k wrote: »

Actually, most of what she said was BS, as history has proven.

She was spot on with the concept of the pole tax, just implemented it wrong.She also has balls to take the Falkland back.I wonder if Blair and Broon would have done the same.

She made plenty of mistakes but history seems to be painting a fairer picture than you are.;)

ineed

Labour may have lost the last election (rightly so) but the Conservitives couldn't manage a win outright could they. That speaks volumes, as does the results of the recent local elections.

While some unscrupulous people may try to work the system, many do not and are genuinely in need of the benefits. Of course medicals, assessments and so on need to be done and should be kept up regularly, but currently the Atos medicals are often down right cruel and inhumane. Have you heard about the suicide attempts? Google it. It's rediculous. I don't think people should be encouraged in anyway to be on benefits they do not need but disabled people didn't choose to be that way; they deserve the same quality of life as everyone else. If you have a moral compass you want to help others in need. Of course strong medical evidence should be produced; Ie, medication prescriptions, scans, doctors reports, hospital reports etc. if your claim is for a bad back, as you pointed that out, then you should have x rays to prove it or you would at least be on some kind of strong pain medication prescribed to you. So you would have some kind of proof. Although personally I find it difficult to wrap my head around the fact some people don't want to work at all. That's mind boggling.

Greece is worse off than brittan sure, hardly surprising is it. Doesn't stop this country being in turmoil because of bad leadership decisions, that's not an over statement it's fact. I agree we need more jobs, and apprenticeships. Shame old Maggie had all the steel factories closed isn't it . Oh and I personally think the Falkland islands belong to Argentina but that's another topic.

I read that facts, the comments IDS made for instance are fact; he said them. Someone's opinion on the Conservitive or Labour party on the whole doesn't interest me. I have my own opinions. I read someone's opinion, if I don't like it I respect their right to an opinion I just don't let it sway my own opinion.

[Deleted User]

leveller2911 wrote: »

She was spot on with the concept of the pole tax, just implemented it wrong.She also has balls to take the Falkland back.I wonder if Blair and Broon would have done the same.

She made plenty of mistakes but history seems to be painting a fairer picture than you are.;)

the poll tax was flawed from start to finish
brown or blair might have taken the falklands back had the need arisen,cameron couldnt as we have aircraft carriers that have NO aircraft,and he had £4 billion worth of nimrods sold for scrap

cit_k

leveller2911 wrote: »

She was spot on with the concept of the pole tax, just implemented it wrong.She also has balls to take the Falkland back.I wonder if Blair and Broon would have done the same.

She made plenty of mistakes but history seems to be painting a fairer picture than you are.;)

So she screwed up with poll tax, and sunk the belgrano illegally?

wouldbeqaulitymoneysaver

Unbelievable. I was shocked he could say such things.
Mind you as they are Toffs there can be no surprises as to how they REALLY speak about us.