cash on collection only

Becks81

Hi there I recently sold a large item as a collection only item.

It fully states this in my listing and that I only accept cash on collection. I hadn't even invoiced them because the listing states this and today the buyer paid by paypal :mad:

I have refunded the buyer and sent them a polite note saying it is cash only on collection. (I've read the horror stories on here of people being ripped off)

Obviously paypal have taken their fees for this and now I will be out of pocket, because the seller obviously ignored the listing instructions can I charge them the full cost of item, or do I have to include the loss and charge them minus paypal fees. I don't want to be tight, but am rather miffed about the whole situation.

sharpee

I'm sure its part of eBays T&Cs that you have to offer Paypal, although you can state you prefer cash on collection

Auntie-Dolly

When you refunded the payment you got your fees back, less 20p.

soolin

Unfortunately cash on collection is always a gamble. If buyer now refuses to pay cash you have nowhere to go with this at all, so you really need to keep the buyer sweet now to complete the deal.

Hopefully when you refunded you refunded the original payment (and got your paypal fees back) , but also I hope you sent a nicely worded email to buyer making some mention of why you prefer cash on colelction and why you had refunded the paypal payment- mentioning scammers and scams is not the way to go, the usual suggestion is something like 'to give you the chance to inspect the item in situ before you pay I am refunding your paypal payment and suggest you bring cash......'

Also remember that when you refunded and assuming buyer paid by bank transfer, it may take up to a week for their refund to show, so you may have to wait that length of time before buyer agrees to collect with cash.

Your buyer holds all the cards here now, so be careful and be ultra polite

porto_bello

sharpee wrote: »

I'm sure its part of eBays T&Cs that you have to offer Paypal, although you can state you prefer cash on collection

This is true, however, the T&Cs of both Paypal and eBay state that in order to qualify for Paypal seller protection, the seller MUST despatch the item via a delivery service, which is trackable to the point of receipt by the buyer.

Therefore if the buyer insists on making a payment via Paypal, it is possible for the seller to equally insist that the item is despatched via a trackable form of delivery and refuse to allow the item to be picked up:

From eBay T&Cs:

How are sellers protected from losing a case?
For “item not received” cases, if sellers post the item within their stated handling time and provide a valid proof of delivery for the item, eBay is likely to decide in their favour.

“Proof of delivery” is online documentation from a postal company that includes all of the following:


A status of “delivered” (or equivalent in the country to which the item was delivered) and the date of delivery.


The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent).


Signature Confirmation for transactions that total £150 or more.



In other words, if a buyer insists on collection, the seller is equally able (and fully backed by eBay and Paypal T&Cs), to insist that for collection, Paypal is an inappropriate form of paymant - therefore payment should be made via cash on collection, avoiding any fear of INR Paypal chargebacks after the item has been collected.

To prevent any nasty surprises after the auction, I find it best to write on the item listing with something like:

"Payal T&Cs insist that Paypal payments require tracked delivery, therefore if the item is to be collected by the buyer (or a representative), payment must be made in cash to comply with Paypal's policies."

soolin

Actually you cannot change the terms of the auction once it has finished and you can't charge for postage if none was included in original terms. Once again if you wanted the item posted you would need buyers agreement to do so.

If buyer refuses then there is nowhere else to go with this, and all the seller can do is walk away from the transaction, pay their FVFs and hope buyer doesn't leave a neg.

To use the 'item must be posted' way out of this, the original auction would need to be set up as showing postage costs of X, rather than collection only. Then something like 'collection is possible by prior arrangement', then if buyer asks about collection you can insist on cash, if in turn buyer insists on using paypal then they would need the invoice and that would automatcally pick up the postage costs from the listing.

Becks81

Auntie-Dolly wrote: »

When you refunded the payment you got your fees back, less 20p.

This is correct, I was assuming I would be out of pocket to a bigger scale as my item sold for £90

The buyer hasn't responded to my email yet, but I will use the advice mentioned here about wanting the buyer to inspect the item before parting with any cash- I would not have thought of that tbh.

Thank you for all the replies, I must admit I was a bit hasty in my post and should have waited and checked my paypal account more thoroughly. :9

shaun_from_Africa

It's really about time that Paypal started following their own guidelines for what is and isn't covered under their buyer protection policy and refused to refund buyers who used paypal to pay for large collection items only.

13.3 What type of payments are eligible for re-imbursement under PayPal Buyer Protection?

PayPal Buyer Protection only applies to PayPal payments for certain tangible, physical goods that can be posted. Payments for the following are not eligible for re-imbursement under PayPal Buyer Protection:

Things such as large furniture items, "white goods" etc can't physically be posted, therefore according to the paypal user agreement, they don't qualify for buyer protection.

I know that this wouldn't have any effect on direct chargebacks on credit cards, but at least it would make it far harder for scammers as a signed and dated receipt of collection may well be acceptable proof to help show the credit card company that the claim is false.

porto_bello

Further to Shaun's comment...

The problem is that be it a CD, book, fridge or furniture, if a buyer paid via Paypal and subsequently makes a INR claim, the onus is immediately on the seller to prove the item was despatched via a method trackable to the buyer.

Anything less than trackable delivery and the seller loses both the item and the payment. The fact that a sofa or fridge can't be posted doesn't come into the blinkered viewpoint that eBay and Paypal have adopted.

Hopefully eBay/Paypal will revise their viewpoint and realise that INR scams or the fear of INR scams is holding back confidence in eBay/Paypal - leading to a change of heart... Allowing sellers to remove Paypal as a payment method for exclusively collection only items would instantly transform the situation.

Until then, it's a case of sellers being aware of INR scammers and deciding how best to minimise the danger. Clearly there are different and opposing views on this...

However, I find it helps to state that trackable delivery is required for paypal payments and adding that (as an alternative) cash on collection is available, but therefore NOT Paypal AND collection. If nothing else, this will at least notify any passing INR scammer that they should look elsewhere for a victim and free goods.

shilcor

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

It's really about time that Paypal started following their own guidelines for what is and isn't covered under their buyer protection policy and refused to refund buyers who used paypal to pay for large collection items only.
Things such as large furniture items, "white goods" etc can't physically be posted, therefore according to the paypal user agreement, they don't qualify for buyer protection.
.

When I buy from eBay I do it via Quidco to get cashback and always use Paypal when paying so that the payment is tracked by Quidco and eBay. I'm not sure if the Quidco tracking would still work if I paid cash on collection, even if the seller marked the item as paid in eBay - any ideas?

soolin

shilcor wrote: »

When I buy from eBay I do it via Quidco to get cashback and always use Paypal when paying so that the payment is tracked by Quidco and eBay. I'm not sure if the Quidco tracking would still work if I paid cash on collection, even if the seller marked the item as paid in eBay - any ideas?

I would think it unlikely it would track as it does say somewhere about making sure you click back through Quidco to pay without clearing your cookies.

I don't believe everyone paying by paypal for a collection item is a thief, I sold one to a fellow dealer who used paypal to prove payment as he was being investigated by HMRC and had years of cash in hand sales which was causing him problems.We had a great chat about it , he said HMRC had not been unhappy that a number of his purchases were in cash, but it would certainly help to have a trail for even a small percentage.

I initially suggested a receipt, but he said HMRC investigations had told him that was as bad as cash in hand as anyone can buy a receipt book, or print out invoices from a home PC, and for th epurposes of his audit they wanted a certain percentage done through credit/debit card statements or other online or bank means.

As an aside, and going Off Topic I make sure I always pay by debit card at auction so I have both the auctioneers receipt and a bank card receipt for a lot of my purchases. I hope should I ever be audited that that will be a big enough percentage to outweigh all my casual cash purchases and deals with other dealers.