Paypoo account limited

toffe

RFW wrote: »

The FSA have their own department for Paypal. Paypal volunteered to be regulated by them, to date they have not gone against any FSA rulings. If you have a complaint against Paypal you can complain to the FSA who can, if necessary, make a ruling that Paypal will abide by. There's another thread on here where someone has done just that.

to my knowledge the only time the FSA form special teams to deal with financial organisations is when they have an overwhelming amount of complaints about that organisation, so either thats innacurate or its a very, very bad sign.

what you say is true, paypal are voluntary subscribers to the FSA which means that they choose to adhere to the FSA code, but if at any time they decide to they can choose not to adhere to the code, thats the difference between regulated companies and non regulated voluntary subscribers, whether or not they treat you fairly and in line with uk regulatory bodies is entirely up to them.

not exactly "safe" is it? having to protection?

RFW

toffe wrote: »

to my knowledge the only time the FSA form special teams to deal with financial organisations is when they have an overwhelming amount of complaints about that organisation, so either thats innacurate or its a very, very bad sign.

what you say is true, paypal are voluntary subscribers to the FSA which means that they choose to adhere to the FSA code, but if at any time they decide to they can choose not to adhere to the code, thats the difference between regulated companies and non regulated voluntary subscribers, whether or not they treat you fairly and in line with uk regulatory bodies is entirely up to them.

not exactly "safe" is it? having to protection?

I believe the Financial Ombudsman Service look at cases too. Whilst they act within the law (probably as much as any financial institution does) and the FSA, if at any point they stopped then I'd assume that's when the government would step in.

As it is they are pretty good at protecting the consumer (who is the buyer, not the seller) and one of the safest forms of payment to use as a buyer.

toffe

RFW wrote: »

I believe the Financial Ombudsman Service look at cases too. Whilst they act within the law (probably as much as any financial institution does) and the FSA, if at any point they stopped then I'd assume that's when the government would step in.

As it is they are pretty good at protecting the consumer (who is the buyer, not the seller) and one of the safest forms of payment to use as a buyer.

again, with the FOS they are voluntary subscribers to the scheme.

even if paypal do treat customers in the same way as uk regulated banks, thats not the point, the point is that paypal are not the same as regulated uk banks and you simply dont have the same protection.

if paypal ever collapsed (and before you roll your eyes as though that could never happen just think back to RBS and our own banking crisis) all of the money held in paypal accounts would be lost, With uk banks consumers and small businesses have a certain amount of protection.

also where do paypal hold your personal details? your bank details, credit card info? copies of utility bills, driving licenses etc?
i.e all of the documentation someone would need to steal your identity and run up debt in your name?

the stone cold fact is that you don't know who has access to that information or where ts stored.

all we do know is that it is sent abroad and can be shared with any paypal office around the world as paypal see fit, according to their user agreement.

still think thats safe?

RFW

toffe wrote: »

all we do know is that it is sent abroad and can be shared with any paypal office around the world as paypal see fit, according to their user agreement.

still think thats safe?

If you're going down that route you could also say that of most banks in this country, the majority are know owned overseas and anything is possible.

Despite them 'upsetting' a lot of users by holding funds, etc, there hasn't ever been a mass consumer movement against how they operate, so they must do something right.

StaffsSW

toffe wrote: »

the stone cold fact is that you don't know who has access to that information or where ts stored.

all we do know is that it is sent abroad and can be shared with any paypal office around the world as paypal see fit, according to their user agreement.

still think thats safe?

Yes.

Name me any institution that doesn't keep back-up data?
Do you not think it is prudent to have multiple contingency plans?

Personally speaking, I know that ebay/paypal/google/facebook and many others are based in "Silicon Valley", which is not far from a major earthquake zone. I feel more comfortable knowing that my account details will be stored at multiple locations in the event that something catastrophic occurs at one location.

toffe wrote: »

if paypal ever collapsed (and before you roll your eyes as though that could never happen just think back to RBS and our own banking crisis) all of the money held in paypal accounts would be lost, With uk banks consumers and small businesses have a certain amount of protection.

The other significant difference between Paypal and your example of RBS, is that Paypal have not left themselves exposed to massive debts in the form of mortgages and investments.
Also consider the typical cash reserves that people have in Paypal at anyone time - it's not like people invest their life savings, or pension funds into Paypal. Paypal do not have teams of bankers trading on stock market floors with investors funds like RBS do.

So no, Paypal can not possibly face collapse in the same way that RBS et al have, and therefore would not need bailing out in the same way.

P3dro

stevew8975 wrote: »

The other significant difference between Paypal and your example of RBS, is that Paypal have not left themselves exposed to massive debts in the form of mortgages and investments.
Also consider the typical cash reserves that people have in Paypal at anyone time - it's not like people invest their life savings, or pension funds into Paypal. Paypal do not have teams of bankers trading on stock market floors with investors funds like RBS do.

So no, Paypal can not possibly face collapse in the same way that RBS et al have, and therefore would not need bailing out in the same way.

Beat me to it

toffe

stevew8975 wrote: »

Yes.

Name me any institution that doesn't keep back-up data?
Do you not think it is prudent to have multiple contingency plans?.

in the UK in order to store credit card data the company has to be PCI DSS compliant and get authourisation, they are told how they mudt store and handle sensitive data and are regularly audited to ensure compliance in maintained.

are paypal PCI DSS compliant?

stevew8975 wrote: »

The other significant difference between Paypal and your example of RBS, is that Paypal have not left themselves exposed to massive debts in the form of mortgages and investments.
Also consider the typical cash reserves that people have in Paypal at anyone time - it's not like people invest their life savings, or pension funds into Paypal. Paypal do not have teams of bankers trading on stock market floors with investors funds like RBS do.

So no, Paypal can not possibly face collapse in the same way that RBS et al have, and therefore would not need bailing out in the same way.

bad example, its not just investing in sub prime mortgages that can send a huge business under, i don't think the 100 plus year old Woolworths were invested in sub prime mortgages were they?

soolin

toffe wrote: »

in




bad example, its not just investing in sub prime mortgages that can send a huge business under, i don't think the 100 plus year old Woolworths were invested in sub prime mortgages were they?

Since when was Woolworths a bank?

Don't muddle poor business models with the banks need to invest. Retails businesses sell things, banks and financial institutions invest.

Although actually, there were suggestions that Woolworths might have been saved if the banks had a more secure future, so indirectly there is a smalla rgument that sub prime lending did add to the problems of funding that Woolworths had:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/6570626/Woolworths-the-failed-struggle-to-save-a-retail-giant.html

toffe

soolin wrote: »

Since when was Woolworths a bank?

Don't muddle poor business models with the banks need to invest. Retails businesses sell things, banks and financial institutions invest.

Although actually, there were suggestions that Woolworths might have been saved if the banks had a more secure future, so indirectly there is a smalla rgument that sub prime lending did add to the problems of funding that Woolworths had:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/6570626/Woolworths-the-failed-struggle-to-save-a-retail-giant.html

well i think you misunderstood my point, the point was that investing in sub prime mortgages, albeit the primary reason for RBS's demise and sebsequent need to be rescued, is not the only way that a very large business can fail, as steve seemed to suggest in his post.

on the subect of woolworths not being a bank, well lets not forgrt that in the UK paypal are not a bank either as they were refused bank status when they applied which then lead them to move to luxembourg.

paypal are not a bank, they are an electronic money issuer with ideas of grandour.

StaffsSW

toffe wrote: »

bad example, its not just investing in sub prime mortgages that can send a huge business under, i don't think the 100 plus year old Woolworths were invested in sub prime mortgages were they?

Woolworths failed mainly because they operated the business on an ever-growing debt, paid for by a decreasing revenue stream from a shrinking marketplace. They also had huge investment in the DVD distribution market in the UK (Total Home Entertainment) and as that market evolved, they were left even more exposed to their debts.

Ebay/paypal grew organically rather than through debt funded growth, and they certainly don't have a cash flow problem, given that they are a predominantly a short cycle retail service. They do not have huge investment exposures as pointed out before, so give me a few more reasons why you think they could collapse?

And yes, if you were astute enough you could have found their PCI compliance information with a very quick google.

https://www.paypal-business.co.uk/pci-compliance/

I tend to find it is better not to get into discussion on matters that I don't have the first idea about. It may be prudent for you to do the same to save further embarrassing yourself.