NCT AnteNatal Classes

dizziblonde

I'm coming to the end of exclusively expressing for mine after just over a month - my supply's going and I'm too burnt out of being chained to a pump every 2 hours trying to desperately keep it going, the breast pump's on the blink (don't buy Avent kids), I don't like constantly having to be taking domperidone (and I ain't spelt that right) to help with supply and I don't like the way that I'm having to almost abandon the baby between feeds to keep pumping to keep supply going, especially now hubby's back at work as well... so I've decided not to fight things further and let them come to an end. Yes, I couldn't breastfeed... well, more accurately - she couldn't breastfeed - add it to the catalogue of things linked with her birth that didn't go to plan and where I feel I failed her as a mother... I tried - did as much as I could - doesn't make me feel less guilty, no doubt somewhere there's superwoman who fought through the feelings of utter trauma with the birth, fought through the baby born too early with no ability to stay latched on (even now she's almost the equivalent of full term she still can't do it) and fought through staying in a horrific hospital even longer in order to come out fully breastfeeding - so sue me I couldn't do it.

What IS utterly wrong is when you're made to feel like crap indiscriminately for having bottles, with no understanding of the reasons why. When it's acceptable to just bash everyone as "oh if only you'd tried harder", and when we've got to a situation where women are avoiding various things because of feeling embarassed about formula feeding - our babyclinic sign in sheet has a huge box for you to declare how you're feeding your baby and I fail to see why it needs to be done on a sign in sheet fortnightly, when it's already been discussed between you and the health visitor and is already all over your notes and the baby's red book... or when you're in the situation I'm in - when you're so scared of being at the hands of someone sneery about your feeding choices - that you won't consider going to any baby groups or similar things - in case feed time crops up when you're out there. I've sat and sobbed my eyes out over everything that went wrong with my girl arriving (and before anyone suggests it - it's definitely NOT PND... it's just the combination of a hideously mismanaged traumatic birth I'm in the process of complaining to the hospital about, and feelings of utter utter guilt over the feeding and over the fact my body couldn't even carry her to anywhere near full gestation) - and being pressured into feeling ashamed over the feeding "choice" (in inverted commas as it wasn't really much of a choice at all - she HAD to be given formula in the hospital really - no offer of donor milk was given, it was a "we need to put some food down her tube - which formula do you want?"... and I've fought as much as I can to keep some form of breastmilk supply going but it's a losing battle) is really really really helpful to stopping me feeling terrible about it all.

I'll hang my head in shame - I'd actually like to be able to remember some of her earliest days... not just remember praying she'd feed as quick as possible, settle straight back to sleep so I could get the pump out, get that assembled, express, get that cleaned up and put back in the steriliser, find a second to go to the loo etc before beginning all over again... I'd rather not spend her entire babyhood wanting her to be back asleep so I could get expressing again - and that was very much what was happening and it was realising THAT, not any inconvenience toward me personally - that made me decide to draw the line and that it was ridiculous.

I await the inevitable arrival of the "you just didn't try hard enough" crew.

theoldcynic

dizziblonde, I am sorry for your traumatic experiences, however am struck by how hard you appear to have tried and no doubt are doing your best for your baby. What a valiant effort you have made to express all that time, taking unwanted medications, experiencing physical discomfort and taking time away from your baby to ensure they get the best nutrition. I am so sorry to hear that few others are acknowledging that in your life and you feel so victimised. What a terrible experience.

There seems to be such controversy surrounding formula vs breastfeeding, so many opinions, and no doubt a lot of them are short sighted.

I have not had my baby yet but have expressed a desire to nurse, and tbh i am already getting similar negativity to you. There are people around me that really do not want me to bf and have made remarks of "well not in front of me" and "it's selfish, how do you expect your OH to bond with the baby", comments that it encourages clingy babies, saggy boobs and how it's disgusting to do it after six months! I have also had people who chose to formula feed who took my desire to bf as a direct criticism of their choices! When it sincerely is not the case. No doubt this comes from the negativity they have experienced from others over their choices (or not having a choice as in your case) and their resulting (and understandable) defensiveness. No wonder some women become 'm4fia' mothers whether formula or breastfeeding! I truly believe that it is impossible for any new mum to do anything right in anyones eyes!

You do what is best for you and your baby, follow your instincts and ignore the rest.

I don't know if you have written your birth story on here. Perhaps it is too traumatic to go over. But perhaps at some point you may find it cathartic. I would be interested to hear it but that is not meant as a pressure.

As an aside, I do have my first NCT antenatal class tomorrow :eek:. My NHS class is too close to the birth for my comfort, and sadly I did not know there were other options for classes... wish I read this thread first! It cost £175 and unlike the NHS they were very flexible and the course is over several day/eve sessions. My NHS class only lasts one day, and i do worry how much I would be able to take in on one jam packed day so late into the pregnancy.

Incidentally I have already been taken aside by an NCT member about their attitudes over feeding, so am prepared. I will let you know how it went if you wish, but will try to take it with a pinch of salt and critical mind when i'm there.

Metranil_Vavin

Dizzi - I just read your birth experience on one of the other threads, and I have to take my hat off to you.

It sounds like you had a totally horrendous time with incompetent 'care'. No wonder the whole experience left you traumatised and struggling.

Don't for one second listen to ANYTHING anyone says about you not BF'ing. As long as your DD is growing and doing well, that is all that matters.

I struggled with BFing too, and in fact whilst in hospital recovering from the birth of my son, I often asked the MW's to bring me a bottle of formula for him as he just would not latch on properly. It was all so upsetting.

I ended up missing out on BFing him in the very early days, but managed to get the hang of it later and BF till he was 7 months.

I didn't enjoy the experience at all, but did the best I could, and actually that is all you can do.

As a health visitor said to me, better for mum to be bottle feeding and in a good frame of mind mentally than struggling to BF and losing it.

PS - did you take action against the hospital you gave birth in?

Nicki

Off topic, and am sticking my neck out at the risk of having it broken off, but out of concern

Dizzy blonde, why are you so adamant that you don't have PND? Just based on your one post, you report you had a very traumatic birth (so you are more than 3 times more likely to suffer PND as a result), you are angry, weepy,exhausted, guilty, have distorted thinking and are avoiding social contact for a reason most women would find insignificant.

I know there is a huge stigma about PND, but it is very common and there is a lot of help out there to be accessed, which doesn't have to include medication if you don't want it, but is very targeted at new mums with young babies. It's horrid not to be enjoying life with a new baby, whatever the cause. If you've never had any episodes of less than optimum mental health, it is even more likely that you do have PND if you are genuinely feeling the way you describe now.

I've had 3 kids by the way. 1 and 3 were elective c sections because baby was breech and apart from the physical stuff of recovering from the births, I was fine afterwards, even though no 3 was very ill for about 6 months afterwards so we had a stressful time. No 2 was a traumatic vaginal birth, she and I were very ill for a few weeks afterwards and she has severe learning difficulties. I had the worst PND imaginable after that birth, not picked up by anyone until she was about 10 months old by which time I suffered a complete mental collapse. Had some PTSD when pregnant with 3 but otherwise have never had any mental health issues in my life. On researching the subject, 70% of women who have a traumatic birth experience will be diagnosed and treated for PND, so as it is an underreported condition, an even higher proportion must suffer it to some degree.

You should feed your baby how you choose to, and ignore what anyone else thinks, but if you are feeling as wretched and miserable as your post suggested on a daily basis, please also consider getting some medical advice for yourself.

girl-in-a-hat

Nicki wrote: »

Off topic, and am sticking my neck out at the risk of having it broken off, but out of concern

Dizzy blonde, why are you so adamant that you don't have PND? Just based on your one post, you report you had a very traumatic birth (so you are more than 3 times more likely to suffer PND as a result), you are angry, weepy,exhausted, guilty, have distorted thinking and are avoiding social contact for a reason most women would find insignificant.

It really ISN'T insignificant I promise you. I had a traumatic delivery, a mismanaged stay in hospital and problems feeding my LO. I am supposed to be at postnatal group this afternoon but the women there have got their breast feeding judge-y pants pulled up so far that they've got massive wedgies from them. 'Breast is best' has been drummed into some of us so hard that we can't help but feel disappointment and failure at having to make an alternative decision - and then having to justify it to the 'brestapo'!
I don't think Dizziblonde is avoiding ALL social contact, just situations where she's made to feel carp - surely that's human nature?

Dizzi - I hope you're able to enjoy your LO more now x

dizziblonde

I'm prone to depression - but the one thing I'm very good at is spotting when I'm starting to sink and knowing the difference between a crap patch (which we all have) and the start of something more.... and at the moment, apart from the expected total zombieness, and the also expected days of hormonal lows (again, for me hormonal "blips" like PMT feel different from depression) - I have a 1 month old so this is distinctly part of what I signed up for! - life's pretty good. I actuallly requested a mental health referral while pregnant because of how aware I was of having risk factors for PND - but since away from that hellhole hospital (where I hear more and more horror stories from by the day) - I feel fantastic.

Don't get me wrong - what we went through at the hands of the hospital IS horrific and traumatic looking back at it - but I'm not a wallower - I'm a deal with it and move on person... and now we're at the point where I'm working on a complaint about it all (and one of the things in the complaint is going tobe the handling of breastfeeding with the preemie babies there - especially since I found out today you have women wanting to donate milk for this kind of situation having to drive to Birmingham with their deposits - ridiculous!). The hospital crap knocked me foor six, and it's taken me a while to be able to mentally process it enough to channel it into something to move forward to - but it was never depression.

As for avoiding social contact - I've always disliked the tendency of women to make themselve look better by running other women down - and lots latch onto breastfeeding as a way of doing that - I'm not going to be their fodder to achieve this... plus who's going to want to socialise with women sneering at you and your choices anyway? (and yes depending on the norms where you live - it does go on)

Nicki

If it helps girl in a hat, I had to stop breast feeding my last child at 4 months because he had a severe intolerance to breast milk which was one of the things which was causing him to be so ill for the first 6 months. So I do understand the social pressure, disappointment and all the other feelings which come from whipping out a bottle in a room full of nursing mothers. But if you are otherwise well yourself, those feelings should not be so overwhelming as to prevent you from ever attending any activities with your baby. Dizzy said she wouldn't even consider going out anywhere with her baby where she might meet other mums, and that is not a nice place for her or her child to be in. Statistically, at the age Dizzy's baby is less than half of those mums who started breast feeding will be continuing to do so, and that will drop to a quarter by the time the baby is 6 months old. So at least some baby groups and activities will have far more bottle feeding mums there than breast feeders, and very few will be exclusively breast feeders unless it is a breast feeding support group. Hence, why I was concerned that her extreme reaction was indicative of something more serious which could be resolved.

Dizzy we cross posted. You know yourself best. But maybe send a grandparent out with baby to scope out a few groups first to check if they are as superior as you think they are, rather than cut yourself off from all areas of social contact for your maternity leave? I haven't found most groups to be at all as you describe in 3 kids, and whilst not everyone there is my cup of tea, I have made some good friends there over the years too. You don't necessarily have something in common with someone because you both have kids, but equally in a large catchment area you are likely to find some mums with kids who you do otherwise gel with, and it's always nice to have friends with similar age kids to share issues and concerns with as well as triumphs.

jackyann

AMC1979 wrote: »

Good point –I don't think I realised this to be honest. I just paid the £40 without really being sure what I was getting. I'm not sure you get much – apart from a magazine every now and then.

My midwife kept nagging me every time I saw her about antenatal classes until I finally managed to sign up. I don't think they understand if you don't think they're worth doing ...

Have to say am a bit apprehensive about the whole breastfeeding thing. The midwife gave me a booklet at my last appointment last week (was at 29 weeks) on breastfeeding and said that I would 'be asked questions' on it next time (?!) I opened it up later and there were many close ups of breasts and nipples etc. No mention in the booklet anywhere of 'what if you don't want to breastfeed' or bottle feeding, etc. I don't think it's going to go down very well if I express my resistance to it to the midwife/when I'm in the hospital after labour. But I really am not that keen. I would certainly consider expressing milk but I don't want to breastfeed. Is that really so controversial?

without a doubt, breast milk is best for babies (just think about it!). I have, as a midwife & health visitor, dealt with lots of mums who were apprehensive, even phobic, about the idea.
My advice is: find someone you trust to talk to. Your midwife may be able to refer you to a breast feeding specialist who isn't just for technical things, but for understanding. If anyone tries to preach at you, say that is not what you want - you need to sort out your feelings about breast feeding.
Think to yourself - if I'm not keen, could I do it for 2 weeks, or even 2 days (the first 2 days colostrum makes a big difference to your baby's health). Sometimes, you find that if you can give yourself permission to stop, then you can just carry on for as long as you like!
There are lots of reasons that mums are not keen on breast feeding - some are easily got over (like maybe the feeling that you should do the same as your own mum) others (I have sadly dealt with abused women) aren't. Sort it out in your own mind, ask for the support you need, and remember that breast feeding is just part of being a good mum. Good luck!

Gillyx

jackyann wrote: »

without a doubt, breast milk is best for babies (just think about it!). I have, as a midwife & health visitor, dealt with lots of mums who were apprehensive, even phobic, about the idea.
My advice is: find someone you trust to talk to. Your midwife may be able to refer you to a breast feeding specialist who isn't just for technical things, but for understanding. If anyone tries to preach at you, say that is not what you want - you need to sort out your feelings about breast feeding.
Think to yourself - if I'm not keen, could I do it for 2 weeks, or even 2 days (the first 2 days colostrum makes a big difference to your baby's health). Sometimes, you find that if you can give yourself permission to stop, then you can just carry on for as long as you like!
There are lots of reasons that mums are not keen on breast feeding - some are easily got over (like maybe the feeling that you should do the same as your own mum) others (I have sadly dealt with abused women) aren't. Sort it out in your own mind, ask for the support you need, and remember that breast feeding is just part of being a good mum. Good luck!

That part could really upset a lot of people on here. I know you're not implying that women who breast feed aren't good mums, but it could come across as that, a few weeks ago that statement would have reduced me to tears.

JimmyTheWig

dizziblonde wrote: »

I await the inevitable arrival of the "you just didn't try hard enough" crew.

After reading your story, I don't think anyone could say that to you.

But to play devil's advocate, many people who don't breastfeed could have done if they tried harder / really wanted to / had the right support / etc. We're mammals, at the end of the day - we'd have been extinct thousands of years ago if we couldn't feed our young in great proportions.
So I think it is inevitable that some people who haven't heard your story are going to assume that you are one of the many who could have breastfed.
I don't know what the answer is, but I think that ultimately you're going to have to either be prepared to tell people some of your story or be prepared for some of their assumptions.

As to the PND question, it's not something we can diagnose here. All I would say is try to find someone who knows what they are doing (our health visitor is wonderful for this) who you can talk to about how you are feeling. It sounds like you know what you are talking about, but an outsider's view is often helpful, as is getting support as early as possible.