whats the best way to make a slow driver go faster?

Lum

If someone is going to overtake through a limit change, behind a car that is doing the limit then they obviously know what they are doing and have a plan for what happens when the person speeds up.

Sure speeding up deliberately is still bad but if it's a speed limit change and the overtaker can't deal with that, then it's a terribly planned overtake.

I have inadventantly done this to someone myself. I was driving a twin turbo Subaru Legacy, the one with the dead spot in the power curve during turbo changeover. I planted it just before the limit change, autobox kicks down and I accelerate a bit before hitting the deadzone. At this point the corsa pulls out to overtake. I notice this literally as the turbo comes out of the deadzone and the car lurches forward hurling me back into my seat just as I pass the limit change sign.

Apparently even with a starting speed advantage, a Scooby with two turbos is significantly faster than a Corsa B covered in fibreglass tat.

Had to keep accelerating really, if I'd lifted I would have ended up remaining alongside them, and I didn't really feel like doing an emergency brake considering there was nothing coming for quite a while so no real danger.


Edit: Yes, there was a bit of laziness on my part. If I'd been planing to hoof it as fast as possible, I'd have gone to tiptronic mode and dropped down two gears so that I was on the second turbo to start with. I just couldn't be bothered and wasn't in a huge hurry, so just planted it such that it would start accelerating properly in line with the sign.

Weird_Nev

Overtaking "Out of limits" or "out of junctions" or even "out of bends" is often more down to performance differential though.

In flowing open roads you might be making "momentum" overtakes where you carry your speed right through. IF yo're jsut coming out of a 30 into nationals then it's pretty much a drag race, and in those circumstances it's worth knowing a bit a bout your cars relative performance.

If you're behind a powerful well driven car then you know you're not going to get held up, so there may be little point in overtaking it. If you're behind a pootler who's done 40 for the last 10 miles and now 40 through the little village, then a quick overtake might be the best move for all concerned.

The vast majority of cars today have more than adequate performance, it's how you use them that matters. I've made some lovely overtakes in our old 1.4 Tdi Fabia, purely through reading the road and spotting opportunities to make progress rather than brute force. But having aperformance differential to exploit makes many more overtaking opportunities present themselves.

Lum

Well yes I was referring to overtaking with no prior info.. If you already know the guy in front is a 40 everywhere plonker because you have been stuck behind them for 20 miles then go for it!

In the example I gave. The Corsa driver had only recently gotten "stuck" behind me doing 30 in a 30, I guess they caught up with me as they sped through the village. For some reason they thought it'd be a good idea to overtake a metalic purple saloon car with factory-fit blacked out windows, a huge exhaust, a Subaru badge, import-sized number plates and a private plate ending in PWN... at the point the road changes to NSL.

That was never going to end well really was it?

Momentum overtakes are a lot more fun when you're the one driving the crapbox and the person being overtaken is in a "superior" car, however it's also more risky as if they get wound up they will have the better acceleration and braking to allow them to make life very awkward for you if they want to, so I like to leave a much much larger margin for error.

alastairq

Referring to my last point, the Highway Code is silent on the issue.

My view is, it should not be.

alastairq

Another issue I want to raise concerning overtaking stays with the issue of 'speeding-up' or 'racing'.

Whilst I don't condone [and the Highway Code forbids it] a dramatic increase in speed...whilst an overtaking vehicle is in fact, alongside.......I see far too many cases where a driver appears to 'fixate' on the idea of overtaking the vehicle in front, to the extent that they don't take any notice of that vehicle's actual speed when they commence the overtaking process..


The overtaking driver then gets the idea that the driver of the vehicle being overtaken is 'racing'......when in fact all that has happened is, the vehicle in front has been gradually increasing their own speed to the intended level, but the driver behind ..has not noticed!

There is too much effort expended 'blaming' another driver for alleged bad driving practice, and not enough effort expended by drivers looking at their own contribution.

Staying within the Law....[as distinct from having the acquiescence of the Law to ignore it in certain situations.....]........I get the impression few drivers consider whether overtaking is going to be actually worth the effort?

Considerations like, actual [legal]] speed differentials?

Exactly what the overtaking driver is going to do once past? [swapping one rear end for another?]

In other words, overtaking simply for the sake of it, rather than with the intention of making [considerably] better progress?


As Weird Nev has observed

The vast majority of cars today have more than adequate performance, it's how you use them that matters. I've made some lovely overtakes in our old 1.4 Tdi Fabia, purely through reading the road and spotting opportunities to make progress rather than brute force. But having aperformance differential to exploit makes many more overtaking opportunities present themselves.

Making use of the skills acquired through [work] training....[not particularly exclusive to certain employers either......I proffered a suggestion earlier on as to how an 'ordinary' driver could enhance their driving education?].....enables better [more effective] use of less 'capable' vehicles.

Power is handy, but not essential. A driver who understands, and knows how to make the best use of, the handling 'quirks' of a Reliant Robin, can still 'pee-on' more than a few bonfires!

I don't buy fast, ie, powerful] cars or bikes any more......simply because, outside of working hours, [and during, as well] the Law limits how much I can exploit such vehicles.

But I do like to make the best of what I've got.




Are you marching today?

Strider590

alastairq wrote: »

I see far too many cases where a driver appears to 'fixate' on the idea of overtaking the vehicle in front, to the extent that they don't take any notice of that vehicle's actual speed when they commence the overtaking process..

We are forgetting another type of driver here, the "must brake hard for the slightest bend and every car/truck/bike coming the other way".
Even if the person is mostly doing the speed limit, if they keep doing this ^^ I'll be planning to overtake at the first safe opportunity.

Exactly what the overtaking driver is going to do once past? (swapping one rear end for another?)

What's wrong with that?
I know a lot of "overtaken" people gain amusement from this, but one less car makes the next overtake much safer. I overtook a lady last week, she was stuck behind a slow moving (fully loaded?) artic, she was sitting a good distance back from it, making a total overtake distance of about the length of 3 artics (nose to tail).

I overtook her and she starts giving me grief, laughing and clapping and giving me the beans, I then overtook the truck 1/2 mile later, but there was NO WAY I could have safely overtaken her and the truck at the same time.

My policy is that it's nearly always worth overtaking if doing so might open up further opportunities.

alastairq

What's wrong with that?

Using your example, absolutely nothing, I suppose?

And I'm not suggesting that there is anything 'wrong' one way, or the other....


But when the car in front is preceded by a long, apparently endless line of traffic in front, I ask, what is the point?

What would an overtake achieve? [and in the view of others, a vast increase in risk?]


A point that springs to mind my would focus on exactly how far the overtaking driver was actually looking, ahead? [in my example]

Indeed, if I were sat in the passenger seat, assessing the drive, I would be posing that precise question.....If there is little or no hope of making additional progress...[especially if the road itself ends in but a mile or two.....?]..just how far ahead is the driver observing?


And if not very far ahead, then was their overtake actually a deliberate safe act, or did nothing happen, by chance?

We are forgetting another type of driver here, the "must brake hard for the slightest bend and every car/truck/bike coming the other way".
Even if the person is mostly doing the speed limit, if they keep doing this ^^ I'll be planning to overtake at the first safe opportunity.

This raises the question of, how close is one following behind?

If the driver in front is appearing to 'brake' excessively, then....if that is creating problems, one needs to put more distance between vehicles.



Another issue in this example centres on the attitude of drivers towards each other?

It is wrong to assume every other driver out there has equal or superior skills to oneself.

The driver in front, in your example, may well be an absolute novice?

It may well be the first time they've driven out on the roads, unaccompanied after passing the test?

Or...as we have seen on this thread, someone who is nervous or unsure of themselves?

In any event, they are as equally entitled to share the roads as you or I.


Thirdly, exactly what may be occurring if the brake lights on the vehicle in front come on?

All they tell you, is that the drivers foot is on the brake pedal....the brakes themselves may not, at that point, be activated.

What you describe, I have often seen done on automatic vehicles.....simply because the driver views the pedals as the 'go' and 'slow' pedals.

There is nothing 'wrong' with finding such behaviour annoying to one's peace of mind.....and overtaking when a decent opportunity presents itself.


But,as I said, The point I raise is, why overtake, if it achieves nothing?

alastairq

I know a lot of "overtaken" people gain amusement from this, but one less car makes the next overtake much safer. I overtook a lady last week, she was stuck behind a slow moving (fully loaded?) artic, she was sitting a good distance back from it, making a total overtake distance of about the length of 3 artics (nose to tail).

perhaps you should have applauded her as well?

It isn't often a driver leaves a decent gap between them and the vehicle in front, if, they have decided they do not want to pass that vehicle.

Thus allowing someone such as yourself, the opportunity to nibble away at the queue, so to speak?

However, you hilite an issue I raised above, where drivers view the actions of others, often askance, but from the viewpoint of their own levels of skill and experience.....rather than dispassionately.

She obviously viewed you as a thoughtless nuisance?

Maybe because, she was 'laying back' to get a better view ahead round the lorry, seeking an opportunity to overtake herself?


And you just spoiled her plans by barging in?

If the latter was the case, did you say 'sorry?'

Strider590

alastairq wrote: »

But,as I said, The point I raise is, why overtake, if it achieves nothing?

It's very rare that you'd achieve nothing. As I said, taking one car out of the equation makes the next overtake a much safer one.

If you know there's a nice wide DC coming up, then maybe it's not worth the bother, but then you have to consider whether the driver at the front is one of these vigilantes who tries to enforce his/her own rules on everyone else.....

In which case they might hog the RH lane when they reach the DC, as actually happened to me yesterday!! Except in this case everybody was so wound up after 10 miles at 30mph (in a NSL), they undertook resulting in said vigilante hurling abuse at 2 cars that cruised past on the left, then swerving violently left to stop a third only to be overtaken on the right by me Mr I M Safedriver, was not a happy bunny that day :rotfl:

alastairq

It's very rare that you'd achieve nothing. As I said, taking one car out of the equation makes the next overtake a much safer one.

dunno what empty roads you drive on...but round here....especially at 'going-home' time [I never overtake going to work........nor do I ignore the work's internal speed limits.....].............when the [single carriageway] roads get turned into virtual conveyor belts....I often see drivers who don't ask themselves that question.

For 'nothing' is what they achieve...literally...all that stress and fuel wasted, etc.

As I said, no rights or wrongs, merely asking 'why?'