Conviction as result of train ticket incident, help!

koalalou

Hello!
I'm new to the forums but hope there will be someone out there who can help.

To cut a long story short, I bought a return ticket from St Albans to Bradford online. I picked the tickets up from a self service machine with care and boarded my train with my tickets safely stowed away in my purse. I had set train times, seats booked and receipt of payment. plus online proof of payment.

En route, the conductor asked me where a segment of the ticket for the return portion of the journey was. I said I hadn't removed them from my purse since picking them up from the ticket machine and he said the machine can't have printed one out. I asked if this would be a problem. He said no, I had proof I had bought the ticket and machine error did happen. Conductors can use their discretion and he said it wouldn't be a problem just to explain what happened.

On travelling back from Bradford, I went through the barrier with my baby daughter and bags. I was allowed through the barrier after explaining what had happened to the tickets and he said to just explain it to the conductor on board. I had proof of purchasing the ticket and it was machine error.

On boarding the train, a ticket inspector came onboard. He asked me for the ticket and I explained what had happened and what two separate people had told me. He said I'd been given wrong information. He proceeded to imply that I could have sold this ticket on to someone else. I said that I am travelling with my daughter, I need an allocated seat to help me travel, I wouldn't dream of selling it on to anyone! He said that I would have to pay a fine of 70 pounds for a one way ticket to cover the cost of the missing ticket.

I asked if he could please show discretion due to the fact that the ticket machine hadn't worked properly, I had proof of payment and two people had told me that it wasn't a problem. He said no.

He said that if I didn't want to pay the fine, he would take my tickets and issue me with a permit to travel ticket and that the train authorities would contact me. He didn't say that it would go to court or that I could get a criminal record for not paying the fine.
On hindsight I wish I'd paid the fine because now I'm in a real mess.

I've received a red Final Steps notice letter. It appears that three sets of correspondence were sent to my aunties house (our temporary address at the time of the incident) and not one piece of correspondence was received at that address. Because I didn't know about a court summons, I was charged as guilty and now have a criminal record for failing to hand over a ticket and a fine to pay.

I'm in shock and very very worried .

I want to work with children and train as a teacher. This could potentially damage my future employment. I also hope to travel to America next year to see my sister and I understand that I won't be able to travel with a criminal record.

I've been advised to get a stat dec -no knowledge of proceedings done asap. this clears the conviction and fine. It then has to go back to the prosecutor, who may settle out of court or send me another summons.

Has anyone any knowledge of these types of incidents and what are my chances of getting this cleared?

I'm so sick with worry.

thank you in advance, koalalou:(

HappyMJ

That sort of criminal record will be ignored by almost everybody. Don't worry about it. You will still get in to the USA. You don't even have to declare it. They are worried about "crimes of moral turpitude" whatever that means but it doesn't mean not paying for a train ticket. See wikipedia for an idea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude

Teaching organisations are more worried about crimes against the person rather than this.

AlexisV

Look up the railway bylaws - there is a specific clause where you are permitted to be on the railway where stated to be allowed to do so by a railway employee.

give_them_FA

Yes, I believe that you can make a declaration under oath to the Magistrates' Court that you did not receive any notification of the hearing, and the result is then set aside. Contact the Clerk of the Court.

Stigy

As has been said, you can declare under oath that you were unaware of the hearing. This is known as a Statutory Declaration, and will see the case reheard, thus giving you the chance to prepare any defence you might have.

Happy MJ is incorrect I'm afraid, in that it depends what offence you were found guilty of as to what the implications might be. If found Guilty of a Byelaw offence (18(1) usually in this case), then it's non-recordable on the Police National Computer and thus won't show up on any CRB check. However, if asked if you've been found guilty of a Criminal Offence you theoretically should say yes, because you have been. Having said that, there's no paper trail to come back and bite you!

If found guilty under s.5(3)a Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (where intent to avoid payment was ascertained), then this offence is recordable on the PNC and as such should be declared, irrespective of that such professions as teaching will probably be more interested in potential !!!!!philes entering the profession than 'fare evaders'.

Having said all of that, if two staff members said you'd be okay to travel, they have to all intents and purposes given you permission to use the ticket...or lack of, and as such, the legislation would not apply. Unfortunately though, the onus is on you to prove this. I'd imagine, given the information you have supplied, that you were charged under the former Byelaw offence, which isn't as bad as the latter. As for entering the USA, the latter offence is one of fraud, so could be frowned upon, but you'd need to verify that with the relevant authorities.

It's also true that you can offer to settle the matter administratively with the company should you not want to go to Court, but in this case, you may find that not the best cause of action.

Also, bear in mind that you weren't offered a fine by the Inspector, as only Courts issue them. You were offered either a Penalty Fare Notice or an Unpaid Fares Notice.

give_them_FA

Didn't Cherie Blair have to pay a fine for having no ticket? Doesn't seem to have done her any harm.

Stigy

give_them_FA wrote: »

Didn't Cherie Blair have to pay a fine for having no ticket? Doesn't seem to have done her any harm.

Probably given a Penalty Fare or something....I very much doubt it went to Court! In which case, it was a civil remedy for an otgherwise Criminal offence.

HO87

The yardstick the US have applied in the past is as HappyMJ suggests that of "moral turpitude" - which includes offences of dishonesty. Wider guidance is now given suggesting that if you have a conviction for any offence beyond run-of-the-mill traffic offences you should apply for a visa rather than rely on the visa waiver program and risk being turned back at the gate.

Buzby

The Visa Waiver program was dismantled a while ago, it is now ESTI, the online system, and it does make the distibctions clearer. As for the missing ticket from the machine, depending how long ago the audit trail of these machines is only available for a limited time, but is important for your defence. As I'm assuming those staff members who said it was OK to travel are unknown, cannot provide corroboration at this stage.

It should certainly be possible to hae the action re-run, but you will have to pay for this first. (And have a reason why a family member did not forward any documents to you).

scottishperson2

HO87 wrote: »

Wider guidance is now given suggesting that if you have a conviction for any offence beyond run-of-the-mill traffic offences you should apply for a visa rather than rely on the visa waiver program and risk being turned back at the gate.

I will disagree with what you have written above, as the "wider guidance" is completely incorrect and should be ignored, all you have to concern yourself about is answering the question on ESTA.

This person was convicted of a crime, a non-arrestable summary one. Is theft of service a crime involving moral turpitude.

This person should get a copy of her pnc record and see what that says.

HappyMJ wrote: »

That sort of criminal record will be ignored by almost everybody. Don't worry about it. You will still get in to the USA. You don't even have to declare it. They are worried about "crimes of moral turpitude" whatever that means but it doesn't mean not paying for a train ticket. See wikipedia for an idea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude

Theft of service could be a CiMT, so what you have written could be wrong.