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Conservative government
Comments
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Thrugelmir wrote: »Not at all. Its very complex. Where any decision the UK Government makes can be blown off course in a second by world events.
Labour make it sound simple. As they don't have the answers either.
Whether you like it or not plan A has so far worked.
Worked? How has it worked? We have had 6 months of consecutive negative growth. If that is plan A working, lord help us.
Lest we forget, we've had 12% of the timetabled cuts come into effect. The vast majority are to follow. That is money being taken out of the system. Further adverse issues for growth to face.
Growth has gone backwards in the last 7 quarters. What happened 7 quarters ago to inhibit growth?It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.0 -
heathcote123 wrote: »Nope, I've looked, and post 81 appears to be a lot of waffle.
It doesn't seem to address the fundamental point that spending more money than you have will eventually lead to people stop lending you money. (See for example many of our european allies, downgraded and now paying higher interest rates - they thought like you)
You can dress it up by stating that you don't think we were close to that level, but regardless of how close or not we were, the simple fact is that we will get there if we carry on the same trajectory. Which we will if we continue to spend more money than can be raised via taxes.
It seems hard to fathom just how anyone can not grasp this after the last decade or so of 'investing' in deficit spending.
I'm not dressing anything up. In order to pay down debt (personal or national) we need money coming in. The current approach appears not to be based on creating wealth, & with no growth, paying down debt is not going to happen.
I don't agree that they are creating the conditions for new real business and jobs that produce things. I do agree that the last government was over reliant on the City of London but then that would have been the case if the Tories had been in power too - and lest not forget that previous Tory administrations have based much of their economic 'brilliance' on selling off public assets and North Sea Oil. I don't agree that there was thousands of non-jobs, a phrase which is rarely evidenced by anything other than a handful of job adverts but is otherwise an offensive slander of the many thousands who work and worked very hard in the public sector.
In 1997 after a lifetime of Tory government public sector employment accounted for 19.5% of total employment. In 2008, public sector employment accounted for 19.6% of total employment. In 1992, public sector employment accounted for 23.1% of total jobs.
In the 10 years between 1999 and 2009 there was an increase of around 850,000 in public sector employment - this figure includes the natonalised banks.
So tell me, where is the actual evidence of years & years of reckless spending?It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »In the 15 years we have lived here, mostly rural agricultura,l with urban sprawl minimum of 15 miles away, agriculture, in the real sense of it, has all but closed down.
Where do you live, Somalia?
Where I am (Kent) lamb and beef prices are on a high, the rape seed crop is in full flower and the local cattle market carpark is nose-to-bumper with non-vintage Range Rovers. Even egg prices are up!0 -
lemonjelly wrote: »So tell me, where is the actual evidence of years & years of reckless spending?
How much were they paid and what are the pension liabilities?0 -
Where do you live, Somalia?
Where I am (Kent) lamb and beef prices are on a high, the rape seed crop is in full flower and the local cattle market carpark is nose-to-bumper with non-vintage Range Rovers. Even egg prices are up!
There is the SE and then there is the rest of the country.
That is one of the big problems with this country."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »Not at all. Its very complex. Where any decision the UK Government makes can be blown off course in a second by world events.
Labour make it sound simple. As they don't have the answers either.
Whether you like it or not plan A has so far worked.
Neither party as a clue how to halt the underlying slide that has been going on since the Thatcher era. The banking bubble was created with no undelying substance.
First we sold everything off that we could, then we mortgaged everything else, that couldn't be physically moved, twice over as we failed to keep up the repayments. Lately we have raided the pension funds which they want to empty further on infrastructure projects to nowhere.
There is nothing left to mortgage/sell and we don't have the net income to raise further finance.
Plan A hasn't worked and is unlikely to work as it is omnidirectional."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
lemonjelly wrote: »Worked? How has it worked? We have had 6 months of consecutive negative growth. If that is plan A working, lord help us.
Is the only measurement of a successful economy GDP?0 -
lemonjelly wrote: »Worked? How has it worked? We have had 6 months of consecutive negative growth. If that is plan A working, lord help us.
Lest we forget, we've had 12% of the timetabled cuts come into effect. The vast majority are to follow. That is money being taken out of the system. Further adverse issues for growth to face.
Growth has gone backwards in the last 7 quarters. What happened 7 quarters ago to inhibit growth?
The trouble with assessing whether or not it's working or not is that you can't actually tell what would have happened if we did something else, so it may well be working in the sense that it wouldn't be any different if we were just spending a load more money. In the same way that the crisis started as a global situation, it continues to be one, and there is little that the govt can do about e.g. The euro zone debt crisis in the same way there wasn't much labour could do about the American sub prime disaster.
Whilst it might be possible to make GDP arbitrarily positive by borrowing money and spending it, this would necessarily indicate any real substantive difference to now in the underlying health of the economy.
I rather suspect whichever party had been in power, and whichever ideological course had been steered, it would have made almost no difference either to the macro economic picture, or to the lives of individuals.0 -
lemonjelly wrote: »I'm not dressing anything up. In order to pay down debt (personal or national) we need money coming in. The current approach appears not to be based on creating wealth, & with no growth, paying down debt is not going to happen.
So sensible spending isn't an option in your view.0 -
Ah yes, those were the days, slavery, child labour, sweatshops. Wouldn't help though. A Chinese worker would still get paid less than a Brit could live on, and other countries grow crops cheaper because they get more sunshine. So you still wouldn't create any jobs in manufacturing and agriculture.
We are not going to create those jobs here if we expect them to be self-financing. The only way to create those sorts of jobs here is to pay for the social value of having them.
If only we could reclaim those days when GB dominated the world :eek:
Such is the Old Town of Manchester.. and the frightful condition of this Hell upon Earth. Everything here arouses horror and indignation. 
Friedrich Engels, writing in The Condition of the Working Class in England, 1844
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/manchester/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8233000/8233388.stm'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0
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