Socialising dogs

vicx

Hi, as some of you will already know I have two Yorkie's (brother's) who are 9 months old (where has the time gone!). I know it's important to start socialising dogs with other dogs between 6 - 12 weeks old but this was not an option for me since they were around 12 weeks old when I got them then I had to wait another 3 weeks to be able to walk them after having both injections.

The problem is when on walks, they both bark and go for other dogs. I don't know if its a protection thing but they are the same whenever a dog passes our garden. I have never had this problem with my last 3 dogs so don't know what to do but I can tell you it's not easy bringing two pups up together - double the trouble!

My neighbour has just been getting a Shih Tzu pup (b1tch) who is 8 weeks old. We took her for her first injection today and the vet recommended introducing her to my dogs as it will be good for socialising. She brought her pup to our house tonight but my two were very jealous, one was a bit scared and kept turning his head away and the other just wanted to jump up and have a good sniff to see what it was. They were both growling at each other as if they were protecting the pup? We didn't dare put the pup down in the same room as them in case Charlie attacked her or thought she was a toy. What is the best way to introduce my two dogs and trust them to play nicely and not attack? I will be looking after my neighbours dog twice a week so I would love them to all get along. I have a feeling they are going to be very jealous of her and possibly fight with each other like the problem I had with my last two Yorkies when our King Charles (b1tch) came along.

Thanks for any helpful info

eeker

One of the suggestions would be to take each of the dogs out separately and socialise them - as they are brothers they will be very closely bonded and therefore look to each other as to how to react - I'm not sure how practical a suggestion this is either in terms of time for you or in terms of your neighbours dog but it may prove useful as they then learn how to interact with other dogs rather than just relying on the fact they are a pack (albeit a small one). If you could take them to classes or give them some walks separately this might help.
btw I don't hold with the total pack theory stuff but believe if you have two puppies together then they will take more work to socialise fully than a single pup on its own. Whilst being in the company of their siblings teaches them a great deal early on - it can also prevent them from learning that not all dogs will respond in the same way or can be treated (perhaps as roughly) as a littermate.

HTH

vicx

The problem is they have been together since they were born, never seperated for more than 30 minutes so they do have a very strong bond. I need them to be more independant so will be taking them on more seperate walks. I usually go in the car to parks or the beach which is why they are walked together most of the time.

I am looking after my neighbours pup all day tomorrow so will bring her to my house for an hour or so at a time so they can get used to her. I am terrified of putting her down in the same room as my two as I don't know how they would react since they were very jealous earlier. She only weighs 1kg so you can imagine how small she is compared to my two who weigh 5 and 6kg. If I introduce one at a time and lock the other out the room then the other is going to get jealous that he is left out - why did I think it would be easy getting two pups (never again!). I'm pleased to say the chewing/destroying of the house has stopped and they are both house trained, good at recall, sit, give both paws so we are getting there, now it's just the hardest part: socialising.

gettingready

Sorry but it is not probably a good idea to socialise dogs in their homes - bringing a strange dog onto your dog's teritory I mean.

Try this on neutral ground, in the park perhaps - when none of the dogs needs to feel to be in a protective mode.

Also, 9 months and 8 weeks is a massive difference in dog's "maturity".

Puppy classes perhaps?

And - where are the photos?

elsien

That's one of the reasons I took mutt to training classes, to get her used to being around other dogs in a controlled environment where everyones on a lead so there's no mishaps. Although if you want to go down that route you need to explain the issues to the trainer first. Mutt was aged 1-2 ish at the time, so it's not just for younger dogs.
Other suggestions - do you know anyone with a really calm non-reactive dog? If you can start off at a distance, distract them away from the dog when they spot then reinforce with treats when they ignore it, you can start get a bit closer over time when they realise there's nothing to be scared of.
If they're not used to other dogs, they probably don't know how to react - the fight or flight kicking in. So if a dog walks past, they bark and it goes away, they think they've chased it off which reinforces the behaviour next time round. You need to start showing them that other dogs aren't a threat.

Caroline_a

Another advocate for training classes here, but you will need to have 2 handlers, ie one for each dog. One of the problems with small dogs is that they are so much less threatening when young and are treated very much like babies. Try to imagine that you're dealing with two Doberman... the mindset of dogs are the same, just the size is different! You wouldn't treat a Yorkie as you treat a Doberman... but you should! A child or a smaller dog would have a nasty bite from a Yorkie, maybe not as damaging as from a large dog, and additionally if a small dog goes for a large dog, he might pick on the wrong one!

vicx

Thanks all. Training classes is not an option at the moment but hopefully in the near future.

I have had two Yorkies in the past, one of which was vicious so I know how much damage they can cause when biting hence why I can't trust these two around pup especially since they do not know how to react around other dogs.

Although my two are still pups I still think one will attack as he is very jealous. He barks and goes mad to be in the same room when I have puppy here. The other is very nervous and just stares as if to say 'what's that?' he is a bit jealous (or maybe scared?) as he turns his head away or hides behind me when I'm sitting on the sofa. When the pup tries to bark he wants to play and barks back. I don't think I would dare let them down on the floor together in the same room until pup is around the same weight.

I know some will say it is best not to socialise dogs in their own territory but how do people introduce a new pup/dog to their family? I have found it so hard resisting buying one of the pups but after seeing my two with a pup there is definitely no way I could get one until they learn how to react around other dogs.

I have taken a few photo's which I will upload now

vicx

Poppy after her first injection

krlyr

Would definately recommend building some independence from each other. You can do this in the same way as you would treat a dog that suffered seperation anxiety, very short breaks from each other that you build up slowly. For example, the most basic step could be to crate them seperately in two crates, next to each other, overnight so they learn that they can't always interact. You could then start crating one in the same room with the other loose - give the one in the crate a stuffed Kong for example, and do a few minutes of training with the loose dog, in close range of the crate. Build it up very slowly, don't allow either dog to get distressed, if this means you can only crate one of them for 30 seconds at first, then do it for 30 seconds for several days and then try to build up to 45 seconds, a minute, minute and a half, etc. at a slow pace. If they're too distressed to be crated seperately overnight, then ditch that idea for now and introduce the crate in the day with these short sessions, until you can build up to longer periods like overnight.

Once they've comfortable being crated while the other dog is loose, you can try removing the loose dog from the room for a second - literally put a lead on and walk out and straight back in. The dog in the crate should, again, have something like a Kong to make it a pleasant thing to be left behind. Then stay out of the room for 2 seconds, 5, 10, 30, etc.
It can be tough, and it's easier to just leave them together, but it's vital to train this indepedence because you never know when one dog might need an overnight stay at the vets, or be on bedrest after an injury and unable to go on your usual walk, etc.

When introducing a new dog to the house, it's best if the new dog can be walked with the existing dogs in neutral locations outside of the house several times first. Keeping them in seperate areas of the house with the use of babygates, for example, is another method that allows a slower introduction.

coinxoperated

I would advise NOT to socialise your dogs with a new puppy, as if they were to bite the puppy it could cause a whole range of problems for the new puppy! Be responsible and go to proper training classes either with the dogs seperately or somebody else training one of them and you training one. socialise them with dogs that have already matured slightly. The damage your two could do to a new puppy could be irriversable (sp).

vicx

krlyr wrote: »

Would definately recommend building some independence from each other. You can do this in the same way as you would treat a dog that suffered seperation anxiety, very short breaks from each other that you build up slowly. For example, the most basic step could be to crate them seperately in two crates, next to each other, overnight so they learn that they can't always interact.

My last Yorkie who I lost 1 year ago in May suffered with seperation anxiety when we lost our first Yorkie. He followed my every move and panicked/got upset when he knew he was going to be left alone even for a few minutes if I went to put the bin out. He wasn't left alone for long or often as there was almost always someone home so I didnt train him with short breaks.


I think I will buy a dog tent rather than a crate and maybe keep it downstairs to try and introduce a bit independance with these two. They are both in the spare bedroom with baby gate on at night or when no one is home because they still can't be trusted to have the full run of the house as they cause havok! They were accidently left to have the full run of the house for a few hours when no one was home and I came home to a right mess, they had been running about and jumping on dining room table. I will have to start taking them out on more seperate walks too. I think they would be really good dogs on their own but together they just egg each other on.