a hypothetical situation

Lunar_Eclipse

Loulou2010 wrote: »

can he stop her?

Yes. He could choose to raise his child himself, which in most cases will be better for the child, versus being adopted. I really hope the mother sees this as a good thing and the right thing to do, even though she might find it harder emotionally (not really for rational reasons though.)

Interestingly, I don't think he could stop a termination of the pregnancy.

Either way, it's a painful journey for all involved and the odds are probably against the relationship surviving, unless the pregnant woman is very young and/or the father doesn't feel too strongly about the baby being adopted.

Tish_P

Are you referring to anywhere that I've written anything about the inherent superiority if maternal bonds? If so, please point it out! Or maybe you are getting me confused with "women" in general? Does it help to remember that women, being people, do not all agree at all times on all issues?

The idea that being the primary childcare is the mother's right and responsibility because of women's innate motherly natures is a sexist one and not a feminist one. But this is off topic. I'm glad to see that the law agrees with common sense here and gives a father rights to raise his child in the hypothetical situation the OP laid out.

elvis86

Judi wrote: »

What if he takes on parental responsibility and changes his mind?

...

I suppose in your friends case if that happened she could put the child up for adoption but thats not really fair for the child being shunted around.

How is this any different to a woman carrying on with a pregnancy alone and against the wishes of the father?

At some point in the future, she might decide she can't cope with/doesn't want the child; should she therefore give her baby up for adoption at birth "just in case"?

Women have children with the intention of raising them alone every day, but when we're talking about a father voluntarily taking sole responsibility for his child, we have to consider that "he might change his mind"?

I'm not having a go. It's just interesting the stereotypes and hypocrisies that a rare situation like this throws up.

Lunar_Eclipse

elvis86 wrote: »

Observe how, women are so quick to accept and embrace the superiority of the "maternal bond" when it's suggested that a man wants custody of children over their mother, but how willing they are to dismiss it when they feel that it's a threat to their equality./QUOTE]

Thankfully I don't know anyone fitting this description.

Does anyone actually believe that?

As a parent, I find sweeping gender stereotype comments like that ill founded and quite absurd. Sadly they are increasingly common on this board at the moment, yet they simply aren't true. Responsible parents believe in mothers and fathers being invaluable to children. Humans are unique so the dynamics differ between families, more than simple gender based roles.

At the very least, you could have said "observe how some women", since I doubt anyone actually believes all women think this.

elvis86

Tish_P wrote: »

Are you referring to anywhere that I've written anything about the inherent superiority if maternal bonds? If so, please point it out! Or maybe you are getting me confused with "women" in general? Does it help to remember that women, being people, do not all agree at all times on all issues?

Not at all. I was (jovially) speaking in general, as I assumed you were. "Society" may demonise a woman for giving up her child, but not everyone will. I didn't deem it necessary for you to stipulate that, I understood it. I assumed you would apply the same logic when I say "women".

Tish_P wrote: »

The idea that being the primary childcare is the mother's right and responsibility because of women's innate motherly natures is a sexist one and not a feminist one. But this is off topic. I'm glad to see that the law agrees with common sense here and gives a father rights to raise his child in the hypothetical situation the OP laid out.

Agreed. Though in practice, I'd be surprised if there are many cases where the mother agrees to this/it actually happens.

Lunar_Eclipse

Judi wrote: »

What if he takes on parental responsibility and changes his mind?

People change their mind all the time!

He'll just have to deal with that situation at the time, if it arises. We are talking about a potential child though, so perhaps it's good that one isn't too quick to NOT take parental responsibility. Babies are a natural outcome of sexual intercourse, it would help if we all remembered that.

elvis86

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Thankfully I don't know anyone fitting this description.

Does anyone actually believe that?

As a parent, I find sweeping gender stereotype comments like that ill founded and quite absurd. Sadly they are increasingly common on this board at the moment, yet they simply aren't true. Responsible parents believe in mothers and fathers being invaluable to children. Humans are unique so the dynamics differ between families, more than simple gender based roles.

At the very least, you could have said "observe how some women", since I doubt anyone actually believes all women think this.

It made sense in context. Do we really have to apply caveats to every statement we make?:cool:

In any case, my argument stands; I would put money on the below threads attracting signficantly different responses on here:

Ex wants custody of kids - help!
My ex-husband is attempting to get custody of our children with access rights for me. He says that the children would be better off with him and that he is better equipped to take care of them. How can I stop him taking my children from me?!

Seeking custody of my kids over their mother - help!
My ex-wife is demanding that she have custody of our children with access rights for me. She says that they should be with their mother and that they will be better off with her. How can I go about challenging her for custody? I just want my children with me!

mgdavid

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Women change their mind all the time!
.......

corrected that for you

bargainbetty

At the risk of just answering the damn question and not getting into a sociological debate over the maternal v paternal instinct or societal norms in custody hearings which wasn't the point of the thread.....

If the man wishes to stop the adoption of his biological child to a third party then he should probably obtain legal advice and obtain a parental consent order via a court, as previously noted.

However, if the mother formally declares her intention to give the child up for adoption then he may well have to forfeit any rights to child support, albeit as part of an arrangement where she would have absolutely no rights to access or influence over the child.

If a child is adopted, the birth parents do not have to provide child support - this would be a very grey area in law, if the judge awarded child support against a woman who had legally abandoned all parental rights to her biological child to the father.

The complexity in law is such that this would be better put before a solicitor or barrister for a qualified opinion.

Best wishes

Mojisola

bargainbetty wrote: »

If the man wishes to stop the adoption of his biological child to a third party then he should probably obtain legal advice and obtain a parental consent order via a court, as previously noted.

However, if the mother formally declares her intention to give the child up for adoption then he may well have to forfeit any rights to child support, albeit as part of an arrangement where she would have absolutely no rights to access or influence over the child.

If a child is adopted, the birth parents do not have to provide child support - this would be a very grey area in law, if the judge awarded child support against a woman who had legally abandoned all parental rights to her biological child to the father.

Legal advice is definitely needed but the mother can't opt out of paying childcare just because she would have put the child up for adoption any more than a father could because he wanted his pregnant partner to have an abortion which she refused to have.

If the child exists, it has two genetic parents and both have financial (as well as other) responsibilities towards that child.

If a child is adopted, the parental responsibilities are signed over to the new parents.