section 75 cap one cc and pip implants help please !!

lisyloo

I have tried to resolve with the surgeon

So have you requested the full amount of the claim from the surgeon? and they've only offered to pay part?

and I am forced to pay again to get what I originally intended

Let's be clear (sorry not being picky but this may be really important).
Did you simply settle the case for their first low ball offer? or have you escalted this to a point of final offer.

So I dont technically have a choice butto pay then claim as all costs are compounded from the original cost.

I don't know the to-ings and fro-ings of the conversations, but there is a difefrence between accepting their first low ball offer and the opposite of being forced because all company, industry and legal avenues have been exhausted.
Now you might not be expected to take them to court before contacting the credit card company but you wouldn't be expected to accept the first offer in final settlement either.
As I say I'm not a lawyer and I don't know how the negotiation has proceeded, but I think the danger is that you are accepting a low settlement which could be a "full and final" settlement and perhaps arrive in the form of paperwork once you're there and have paid for the plane and hotel bills and perhaps aren't in the right frame of mind to read pages of legal terms and conditions (I'm sure your mind will be elsewhere).

I could be wrong but I think it's worth raising.

I don't believe the surgeon will leave themselves exposed to further costs, so I would expect them to tie this up legally as "full and final".

crystal_clear

lisyloo wrote: »

So have you requested the full amount of the claim from the surgeon? and they've only offered to pay part?.

No on discovering I had PIP i contacted them and asked what could be done as I wasnt happy in the knowledge I had these inferior implants in. They came back with an offer to replace the implants but at a cost of the surgical fees only that they claim they would still have to pay for the surgical slot to perform the op.

wrote:

Let's be clear (sorry not being picky but this may be really important).
Did you simply settle the case for their first low ball offer? or have you escalted this to a point of final offer.

I dont see how I have any other choice as if i dont pay this surgeon the reduced fee stated I have to pay another a higher fee as they charge for the removal as well as the cost of implants making it more expensive than just an initial breast implant operation. I did try get other prices from other places but all worked out more than this surgeon had quoted.I did try to negotiate but that didnt prove very fruitful. I either pay this surgeon the amount stated or go somewhere else and pay more. bit of a cleft stick really.

crystal clear

lisyloo

I dont see how I have any other choice

Yes there are other choices other that simply accepting a lower offer.
You can complain formally possibly appealing the complaint decision.
You can possibly go to a regulated industry body/ombudsman (if there is one).
You can take legal action e.g. small claim court if it is UK company you paid.

I either pay this surgeon the amount stated or go somewhere else and pay more.

Have you turned down their offer? told them it's not enough? complained? appealed?
Do you have all the evidence of this for the CC company?

When I did a section 75 claim, I complained to the retailer, when I got their decision I appealed the decision and got it reviewed a second time. The second answer was final and I had definitely exhausted that process.

My warning is that if you accept this offer as "full and final" settlement then THAT's IT. That's what it means.
I hope I am not casuing worry unnecessarily, but unfortunately that sometimes happens when you go to amateurs for free, hence my repeated suggestion for professional advice.

crystal_clear

lisyloo wrote: »

Yes there are other choices other that simply accepting a lower offer.
You can complain formally possibly appealing the complaint decision.
You can possibly go to a regulated industry body/ombudsman (if there is one).
You can take legal action e.g. small claim court if it is UK company you paid.

I do understand what you are saying but again I still think in this instance I am between a rock and a hard place.
The surgeon is in Budapest and did the original operation. I cannot afford to antagonise him enough that I can put his back up so he says he will not do anything. I already think My implant has ruptured and until I get to have the surgery cannot be 100% on this (yes I will be insisting on return of the implants removed on day of op)
If i persue any claims via small claims or any medical ombudsman at this time it will put my surgery in jeopardy for 5 weeks time then if rupture has occurred I am left stranded longer awaiting outcomes.

Have you turned down their offer? told them it's not enough? complained? appealed?
Do you have all the evidence of this for the CC company?

I did say I was shocked that the corrective surgery would cost so much even without the cost of the implants and I delayed a while until i had looked at alternatives if any that would be cheaper but all that turned fruitless. I then went back to the original surgeon and reluctantly set a date. All this i have documented in correspondance yes

When I did a section 75 claim, I complained to the retailer, when I got their decision I appealed the decision and got it reviewed a second time. The second answer was final and I had definitely exhausted that process.

I have made the complaint to both the website who in turn contacted the surgeon and then the representative of the the surgeon which is what opened up the line of questions on what can be done.

My warning is that if you accept this offer as "full and final" settlement then THAT's IT. That's what it means.
I hope I am not casuing worry unnecessarily, but unfortunately that sometimes happens when you go to amateurs for free, hence my repeated suggestion for professional advice.

there is no mention of the word offer .... full final or anything as my implants i cannot physically take out and slap in front of the surgeon to request this. It boils down to I need him to remove them and replace with safe implants and to do this i have to foot the bill yet again because the initial surgery I had I was supplied with illegal implants not fit for the human body and didnt know of this until Feb 2012.

Crystal clear

pvt

The first line of that UK website kills you, it says they provide advice and services - which they appear to have provided, arguably the service was booking you an appointment.

I don't recall anywhere whether you said you paid for the balance of the surgery on your credit card in Budapest?

If you did, then you would surely have to pursue the surgeon through the Hungarian courts. Only when you have a judgement of some kind that says the surgeon must re-imburse you, and he doesn't, can you expect the CC company to pay up.

s75 isn't a shotcut to allow you to bypass the due process of you proving that you're owed money, it is just there to make the CC company liable when you are clearly owed money, and the original payee won't or can't repay it.

I think you would be mad to go down the route of having the same surgeon do the repair work. As a number of others have said, that would weaken any chance of your original claim, and any attempt to claim for the new work would be judged solely on the merits of that remedial work, not on the reason why it was necessary.

ILW

Apart from the "booking fee" or whatever it was, how was the surgery paid for?

lisyloo

I already think My implant has ruptured

Surely if there is medical urgency then the NHS will operate. I believe they have already said they will do removal and if your case is urgent it would get prioritised over routine cases.
I understand it might be very distressing to have half a job done and have 2 ops, but ultimately unfortunately that's the nub of your decision (and other people). Can you risk the financial side without knowing the outcome of any claim in order to get it sorted quickly with least distress to yourself?
It looks like you have already decided to take that risk and have the op without knowing 100% that you'll be refunded.

there is no mention of the word offer .... full final or anything

I would think from the surgeons point of view they have settled your case and would not expect to be pursued further.
I don't know to what extent they have tied that down legally, but they have clealy made you an offer in respect of resolving the dispute.
I am not a lwayer so don't know precisely where you stand on that, I'm only raising the issue.
I would not expect that you can keep going back to someone for more money once you've made an agreement. Verbal agreements still count under UK law although we also have the added complication of Hungarian law here.

It boils down to I need him to remove them and replace with safe implants and to do this i have to foot the bill yet again because the initial surgery I had I was supplied with illegal implants not fit for the human body and didnt know of this until Feb 2012.

I am not dipsuting that you have a valid section 75 case. There are questions however are
1) whether accepting a partial offer is effectively settling the case and leaves you no avenue for further redress.
2) Whether the card company are liable because their contract is with a booking website who carried out the booking perfectly adequately. Have you been through all the terms and conditions of the website. Did you get a "terms of business" letter or anything like that? Have you read it?
It may come down to solicitors going through the terms and conditions. This is where £50K or £75K worth of legal over comes into it's own.

meer53

I agree with what people are saying.

The NHS are prepared to remove faulty implants free of charge. If i thought my implant had ruptured, all i would be concerned about is getting it removed for now.
The OP may be successful in her Section 75 claim for the original surgery (although i would be concerned about the company the OP paid her deposit to as they have provided her with what she paid for so there may not even be a claim)
If the OP is successful in her claim, i would use that money to pay for replacement implants.
I most definately wouldn't go back to Budapest for further surgery.
I feel the OP is jumping the gun by setting up the new surgery before getting all the facts about whether she will be able to claim, unless of course the OP doesn't need the money for this surgery ?

Looking on the website the OP used, it says that their services are free of charge. It doesn't mention anything about deposits for booking surgery. This part of the dispute will be crucial as to whether a claim can be made. The only people who can give the OP correct advice are her card issuers.

lisyloo

The only people who can give the OP correct advice are her card issuers.

I wouldn't agree on two counts.

Firstly I don't think they will be able to offer the advice required here. They may be able to answer simple questions over the phone but the complex issues here i.e. the detailed terms and conditions of the website, will require detailed analysis. The dispute will go into a queue and be dealt with by the back office probably taking many months. If the OP asks if the claim will be paid they won't be able to answer. If the OP asks if she should accept the offer they will say that's her risk. The call center operators can not give detailed advice, they simply answer the phones.

Secondly they have a vested interest and there are plenty of FOS cases to show that complanies with a vested financial interest do not always act fairly or in accordance with their obligations (although many good companies do).
The FOS is one route but this is slow and happens after any complaint has ended (8 weeks) which in turn would happen after the dispute has been resolved (many months).
The other avenue for immediate questions is getting legal advice, which many people have for free on their home insurance policy or perhaps with a union at work.
Again they may not be able to comment on detailed matters e.g. the terms and conditions of the website, but they will be able to give guidance and answer questions in the short term, which the CC company phone operators are not able or trained to do. They won't be able to do the detailed work (unless there is free legal cover), but there is a difference between talking to a qualified solicitor and talking to a call center operator with a script.

meer53

lisyloo wrote: »

I wouldn't agree on two counts.

Firstly I don't think they will be able to offer the advice required here. They may be able to answer simple questions over the phone but the complex issues here i.e. the detailed terms and conditions of the website, will need months of analysis. The dispute will go into a queue and be dealt with by the back office probably taking many months. If the OP asks if the claim will be paid they won't be able to answer. If the OP asks if she should accept the offer they will say that's her risk. The call center operators can not give detailed advice, they simply answer the phones.

Secondly they have a vested interest and there are plenty of FOS cases to show that complanies with a vested financial interest do not always act fairly or in accordance with their obligations (although many good companies do).
The FOS is one route but this is slow and happens after any complaint has ended (8 weeks) which in turn would happen after the dispute has been resolved (many months).
The other avenue for immediate questions is getting legal advice, which many people have for free on their home insurance policy or perhaps with a union at work.
Again they may not be able to comment on detailed matters e.g. the terms and conditions of the website, but they will be able to give guidance and answer questions, which the CC company phone operators are not able or trained to do.

The CC issuer will be able to give the OP advice as to whether they would start a Section 75 claim or not. Most CC issuers have a disputes team who are experienced enough to make a decision as to whether they will take this on or not. They obviously can't advise whether this will be successful or not. Where i work, we make the decision whether to start a claim, and we have a legal team available if there are more complicated issues to resolve. I take issue with your statement that CC issuer disputes staff are not trained to provide correct information.

At the moment, the OP hasn't even contacted her CC issuer, they should really be her first port of call, in addition to legal advice. I get the impression that the OP is going for this surgery in Budapest whatever happens, i just hope she realises that the claim may not go in her favour. No CC issuer can say that a claim will be paid.

The immediate issue in this case is who debited her account and what their relationship is with the clinic where the surgery took place and where the balance was paid. If there is no debtor/creditor/supplier relationship, a Section 75 claim may not be applicable.

The website says they offer free advice to people considering surgery. It also says they are not agents for surgeons or clinics. There are too many unknowns in this case really.