Parking notice charge, at my own rented property - please help

nickjames89

I rent a flat in a city centre, and we have one allocated space, which my flatmates and I share. We have a permit which we are required to display when we are parked in the space. The car was parked in the space late on Sunday night, and as I could not find the permit in the car I went upstairs to the flat to have a good look. When I returned, I already had a PNC stuck to the window. Being not much else I could do, and seeing as I had no intention of parking my car elsewhere at this time, I wrote a short note explaining I had mislaid my permit, and removed the PNC. When I came down the following morning there was another PNC, issued by the same person! The 'charge' for each is £100, but can be reduced to £60 if paid within 7 days. Obviously I am extremely reluctant to pay a penny!

I understand this is not a fine but an alleged breach of contract. Have I breached any contract by parking in my allotted space, albeit without the permit? (I actually eventually found the permit inside the car, but it had become wedged down the side of the door, obviously this can't be proved)

I have read it is best to completely ignore and disregard this notice, my only concern is I will then have to pay the whole £200?

I have spoken to the company who manage the property on behalf of our landlord, in the hope they could make a quick call and have this rectified, they were fairly unhelpful and said I need to go through the proper channels of 'appealing the fine' with the parking agent.

If anyone knows my best course of action from this point Id be very grateful. I pay a considerable portion of my income every month for the flat, which includes parking, so the idea of paying £200 to park outside my own flat seems completely ridiculous.

Many thanks in advance.

Nick

ManxRed

nickjames89 wrote: »

I have spoken to the company who manage the property on behalf of our landlord, in the hope they could make a quick call and have this rectified, they were fairly unhelpful and said I need to go through the proper channels of 'appealing the fine' with the parking agent.

First of all, the above is 100% incorrect. The company who manage the property are liable for the actions of any company they contract with to carry out their instructions. They can and should INSTRUCT (not ask) the parking company to cancel both tickets.

What does it say in your tenancy agreement about the space? Does it mention that the space is yours and you have exclusive rights to it? Does it mention displaying a permit? If not, have you signed up to anything that states you need to display a permit?

What does it say in your landlord's lease about the space?

The likelihood is that the permit scheme cannot be operated on your space, only on the communal areas, and any spaces where consent has been granted by the owners/leaseholders. I'm willing to bet this hasn't happened.

You can ignore the tickets, they are legally unenforceable, and would get thrown out of court if the parking firm were stupid enough to take it that far.

You might want to follow up on the tenancy agreement and the lease, and if what I suspect is correct is, then you may wish to write to the managing company and tell them in no uncertain terms that you withdraw all implied access to the space and that if anyone sticks a ticket on your car you will treat it as trespass.

Are there any signs that mention clamping? It would be completely illegal of the parking company to do this in respect of unpaid tickets, however these companies have scant regard for the law, so it might not actually prevent them doing it.

Best nip this in the bud with the managemet company now.

peter_the_piper

You forgot to mention that with most ppc's there is no real appeals process, just a button on the computer which, when pressed, spews out a rejection letter. There is no button for an acceptance letter. When you think about it, the ppc is there to stop random parkers on your private bay and when shown the permit should cancel the ticket, however as its all about the MONEY everyone gets a ticket.

give_them_FA

Further illustration that the ONLY people who suffer when parking parasites get let loose in residential premises is the residents.

The purpose of hiring them is to keep out interlopers. NOT to annoy and harass people who have a right to be there.

However, as p_t_p says the objective isn't actually parking management, it is money making.

You need to raise hell with the management company who were foolish enough to let them infest the place. The can't shrug it off they are 100% responsible for their agents and liable for anything they do, in law.

peter_the_piper

The ones that surprise me are those with key fob gates and still get the ppc's in, the only reason I can think of is a fee to the management company.

vax2002

Two points, the agents will be in on the scam and get a cut of the cash, second point, if it is a breech of contract then the parking company can only sue you for incurred losses, whilst you were looking for your permit, has the parking company had to pay out £200 ? or write someone a cheque for £200, I think you will find the answer is no, they have not, so they have incurred no loss, so the charges must be a contractual penalty.
Now the law states " Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. v New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd. [1915] A.C. 79 at 86" a private company can not charge a penalty, thats the law, whether the parking company like it or not.
So Ignore them, if they clamp, cut it off, it is legal to cut of a clamp you believe to have been illegally placed and outside of legal contract, this includes clamping for unpaid parking charges.
In the meantime dig out your lease and see what it says about parking.

give_them_FA

It is certainly entirely legal to cut off a clamp which has been put on a vehicle which is on YOUR property, as your parking space is effectively YOUR property.

Clamping a vehicle on your property is a clear trespass, equal in principle to them entering your flat without permission and damaging something.

Find a friend with an angle grinder just in case.....

give_them_FA

peter_the_piper wrote: »

The ones that surprise me are those with key fob gates and still get the ppc's in, the only reason I can think of is a fee to the management company.

So the car park managers pay those who are hiring them, and not vice versa? Hmmm......

nickjames89

Thank you all for your help with this. I should point out that I share the space with another person I live with, and my car is no longer in the space, so clamping is not an issue. I don't think this should go against me either as we were never asked to specify a particular vehicle that would be parked there, just given the permit to show we are the residents.

I may be wrong, but I dont get the impression the managing company are out to make a profit from me here, rather just very inefficient at dealing with these things, and the standard response seems to be 'its not our problem, speak to someone else about it'.

I will have to dig out the lease agreement tonight to see exactly what is said about the parking space, but I imagine you are right ManxRed about the terms of the lease and the use of the space.

The only thing I need to determine is whether I just disregard the tickets altogether, or do I send a letter to the management company or PPC stating I will not be entertaining their 'charge'?

From my limited contact with this company I get the impression they will be following the PNC up with further demands for cash, which I have no problem with if I know I am legally in the clear, I just don't know whether its possible to prevent the hassle by one sharply worded letter explaining the law.

ManxRed

I would be tempted to write to the management company pointing out that (a) they have no jurisdiction to operate their parking scheme in your space without varying the terms of the lease, regardless of any signs they have put up, (b) that under the laws of Agency they are legally liable for the actions of the parking company, their agent, and (c) that the tickets do not reflect the actual losses suffered by the landowner as a result of your parking, and hence the demand for £200 amounts to a contract penalty which is unenforceable under civil contract law.

As a result you will not be paying these charges without a judgement in the county court. You also withdraw any implied access for the management company or the parking company to trespass on the parking space in future.

Coupon-mad

It's similar to this pepipoo case:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=68025

...the advice on there about what to do will apply to you as well. The only difficult thing may be if the lease actually stipulates a permit scheme as part of the rental agreement you signed.

Bottom line? IMHO you should be opting out of the daft scheme or simply informing the managing agent that - if it does - your space is rented by you (quote the lease) and that you need no permission to park there. Indeed, if they allow their staff or agents (PPC) to go anywhere near your car parked in your own space it will be trespass and harassment - and you will take legal action against the management co and the PPC jointly. For the avoidance of doubt tell them that your letter expressly removes ANY permission for them or their agent to place anything on your car or in your parking space.

Should open the lines of communication and inform the managing agent that this cannot be allowed to continue if any flat-owners/lessees have a right to the space (their own rented property where they have a right to 'peaceful enjoyment').