What impact will the OFT have?

nickmack

midge61 wrote: »

Here is one thread that shows por support of fellow members.

I did not mean that all are so but occasionally it happens and is neither helpful or supportive.

Of course it happens occassionally. It's the same on virtually all forums, you can't moderate every post and vet every member.

Your previous comment "unfortunately I find most of the posting on here to be very aggressive and I see why many people become confused and make mistakes." was IMO sensationalist and inaccurate. You have corrected yourself above so let's draw a line under it.

If you do see any 'aggressive' posts, why not give the mods a hand and report it?

nickmack

ukmonkey wrote: »

My intention is ensuring that people get helpful, correct, accurate, reliable advice, hence me posting on some of the threads on here from time to time and the whole purpose of me posting on this thread (and a couple of others similar to it).

I salute your intentions, but I stand by my opinion, rather than offer constructive critisism sometimes you seem to be having a sly dig.

I thanked you not because I agreed with your post, don't run away with that idea, moreso because I enjoy sensible debate, and so far, barring a little un-needed sarcasm (IMHO), you're doing pretty well.

Glad you cleared that up, don't want to think we actually agree!

I don't mind if anyone thanks me or for what reason if they do, it's not a competition. I should thank you for your appraisal of my debating, shall I press the button?

Edinburghlass_2

midge61 wrote: »

hi
Here is one thread that shows por support of fellow members.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=291119

I did not mean that all are so but occasionally it happens and is neither helpful or supportive.

The above thread was posted on the Budgeting and Current Account board a month before this particular board was opened.

esmerellda

Just a little comment as a user of both CAG and MSE. MSE brings peoples attention to the issues and gets people started with their claims, CAG helps further down the line, after court claims have been brought and defended and court dates loom, or for people who want to get a bit more in depth than just simply getting back most of their money. Both sites are doing a brilliant job IMO....I do find MSE a bit difficult to keep track of individual users claims - but thats just the way MSE works....and with the simple basic charge refund claims, its probably not necessary to have one thread per claim. Its great to be able to share information between the two sites, I know CAG point people over to here on occassion, and MSE points people to CAG. Hopefully both sites will continue to share information for the better of all. CAG has its fair share of aggressive posts too....

The main reason everyone is here is to HELP people RECLAIM what is rightfully and lawfully theirs....so lets concentrate on that

Leaf

I've been interested in seeing the developing hoo ha about the 2 help sites. Thought I would take a gander at CAG. Sadly it is down. But I am sure that many people have benefited from the joint efforts to help people RECLAIM BANK CHARGES. As that what this is all about. Maybe the anger that many have had welling over the years have made us all a bit crotchety, but let's keep focused, yes?

midge61

Hi Leaf
Site working ok try this link

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

ukmonkey

nickmack wrote: »

I salute your intentions, but I stand by my opinion, rather than offer constructive critisism sometimes you seem to be having a sly dig.

Sorry, didn't realise it was sly, I thought I was being rather clear and open about it to be honest!

nickmack

ukmonkey wrote: »

Sorry, didn't realise it was sly, I thought I was being rather clear and open about it to be honest!

Apology accepted, let's try and get back on topic and helping people reclaim!

MSE_Martin

Dear me, why does it always have to end up with petty squabbling.

Some of the comments above are unfair and unjustified and upsetting, so lets set the record straight.

And after that if the people who seem to want to slag off the issue, find it unpalatable, perhaps you should utilise another site?

1. Why will is it 'easier to get the full amount now'?

Currently many banks are willing to settle for the full amount. After the OFT announces it is likely they will be more willing to settle for roughly half the amount and more likely to force people to go to Court for the full amount.

Now those of you arguing that the OFT will make no differene, may enjoy going to Court; yet the scores of emails and posts and people I've met - are scared to hell of going to court and in many cases won't claim if that's involved, no matter what you say. So it's my aim to try and get people the full amount and if possible do this without needing to go to court - which is infinitely preferable for most people in my view.

It is my belief that will get MORE difficult after the OFT announcement, not because the LAW has changed, but because the ATTITUDE of the banks will change. I have discussed this with the people making the decisions on the other side and this is being strongly flagged.

If you think I just sit here, blythely writing, without doing my research, then I despair. I've spoken to many people involved off-the-record, people with leaks of the OFT announcement, those negotiating on the other side. Of course there is no way of KNOWING what will happen, but its possible to listen and research and predict.

So let me state it again - getting a case started (and by that I mean the initial letters, not a court action) sooner rather than later is the right thing to do (although since I first started this thread, days have passed and its starting to get a little late now for it to make a huge difference) - as it makes it EASIER to get the full amount. This does not mean, that if you fight you won't get the full amount later.

I'm really not going to go through this again - it is all set out clearly in the first post.

2. Why did I publish a guide here rather than continuing the 'go to CAG' stance.

Dear me do i really need to explain? Yet let's get it straight, here's the timeline

A. Dave Smith, one of the two CAG founders, emailed to me in Feb 06 and asked me to promote bank charge reclaiming - I took the issue on and published his notes, rewritten somewhat, with my own additions on the main site. At the time the CAG was the BAG and couldn't really afford to get the servers running and was a tiny site.

I published it here - on a site that already reached 1 million people a month, put it in the weekly email, gave CAG funding to help pay for the servers, and sent a huge amount of traffic from this site.

B. Last June, I then presented the first TV prorgamme on the subject - the Tonight - and did an enormous amount of work and research into the issue - as you do as a journalist; increasing my knowledge on the subject hugely over the time. This featured the CAG as did the big LK today appearance on bank charge reclaiming last June

C. By August my email was being swamped by people who 'did not know what to do'. They read the article here, but couldn't find the CAG letters - were finding the CAG forums confusing, and were scared and constantly asking 'can I rely on the information there'.

Now let me state this is no criticism of CAG which is a great website and deserves much credit (as I always give it on TV and radio even now when talking about this issue, I could cite times, but have no need to prove myself) for being pioneers of this - yet MSE readers are used to doing things a different way and I wanted to respond to the huge demand for a full guide here (remember only 200,000 use the forums but 2.5 million use the whole site)

D. With the above in mind, in October I started a 3 week effort to write a my own detailed easy to use step-by-step guide, and published it on 15 Novemebr based on the masses of work I'd done over the year. As a journalist that's how i work, I build and research information until I'm confident in it then I publish.

This article was designed to put everything in one page - with one click the info and the letters are there. It was also designed to make it easy - that's my speciality and why this site is so big - by making complex finance easy to understand.

The guide did that - from that moment the numbers reading the article all the way through and sticking and clicking the artilce massively increased - much more than with its previous incarnation. That guide made what was previously quite a lot of hard work - easy to do and the numbers of people doing this accelerated enormously (we can track the click throughs).

This is why we've now had 1.7 million template downloads. And according to the available figures, that is more template letters than all the other reclaiming sites added together, including Which, This is Money, CAG and penalty charges - and done in less than four months.

This is the reason I wrote the article, because I felt it was needed to make the issue obtainable and easy to do for people - and I believe the above numbers are the proof that we've managed to do that.

That isn't a criticism of any other site - but it just means that those sites follow a different modus operandi - and the 2.5 million people a month who choose to use this site, seem to like the MSE modus operandi and I thought I should provide it on Bank charge reclaiming!

Yet I certainly believe that for those having some more complex issues, the CAG is a wonderful resource, has info that isn't here and I wholeheartedly recommend people use it - which is why of course I say that in my Guide! In many ways I think this site contains the mainstream info in an easy to use accessible style and CAG is great for the specialist stuff.

E. During the recent special email from this site to 900,000 people I deliberately included links to CAG and penalty charges so it was inclusive. It's worth putting it in perspective, if that'd been a paid advert for those sites (not that it'd even happen here but you understand the analogy) it would have been £10,000s worth for those two sites. I wish another big site would do that for MSE!

The recent Tonight with Trevor I presented, featured and mentioned the CAG. My aim is to get as many people to reclaim bank charges as possible - and to help them out.

I've also utilised my position in the media I can hold my head up and say I am very proud of want I've done. This is about all of us using our strengths together - I have put huge amounts of work and resource into the campaign for bank charges. To be slagged off by people with petty inter-necine arguments is insulting and offensive - and while its a negligible minority and I should 'rise above' it, I'm human and it hurts.

At this point I'm going to leave this argument and not respond again. As you can probably tell, I find some of the above upsetting. I would prefer to focus on how many people have been helped. I've actually had to increase the help teams hours to answer emails of 'thank yous' for reclaiming on this mortgage exit fees and council tax.

From here on I'm going to carry on with my work.

If you want to slag off my motives, or engage in petty squabbling, then I'm afraid I simply don't have the time (i've already wasted enough on this post). And if you don't like this sites stance, ethos or information and have nothing positive to suggest then perhaps you should no longer visit, it isn't compulsory.

If you disagree with my info - please remember that doesn't actually make you automatically right - its a difference of opinion. People can choose whom they believe and I take my responsibility very seriously to provide the correct information as I see fit. Yet ultimately as its my pic at the top of the site, its for me to make the call on what it says (not in the forum of course, thats what its here for, but the site's official stance).

Yet there is a suggestions thread on this board - and I read it and take note and make changes when I feel its appropriate - in fact last week I made a few changes and tweaks to letters and templates based on suggestions and am always happy to hear of more and very thankful to those who've made them.

Martin

bookworm1363

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People don't get flamed on CAG for asking questions


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nickmack wrote: »

Where did I say they did?

Your post, #90 on this thread:

Originally Posted by nickmack
In my opinion, CAG is a more 'hardcore' forum and many users are the forefront of pushing banks and reacting to every suprise they spring. People hopefully come here because they can ask seemingly simple questions and get advice without being flamed.