Query re petition for bankruptcy

debtinfo

just pointing out that although many people assume that an order wont be made against them if they offer a repayment plan, unlike a CCJ the Bankruptcy order judge can still choose (and quite regularly does) to make the person bankrupt.

I have to often seen when i was working people who would say that they didnt think the judge would make them bankrupt of that they wouldautomatically get an adjounment to make another offer when they did not

poppasmurf_bewdley

debtinfo wrote: »

just pointing out that although many people assume that an order wont be made against them if they offer a repayment plan, unlike a CCJ the Bankruptcy order judge can still choose (and quite regularly does) to make the person bankrupt.

I have to often seen when i was working people who would say that they didnt think the judge would make them bankrupt of that they wouldautomatically get an adjounment to make another offer when they did not

Have you EVER come across a Debt Collection Company that will spend circa £1400 to collect a £1500 debt?

Debt Collection Companies I've come across won't spend £15 if they can avoid it.

debtinfo

Yes i have, thank you

poppasmurf_bewdley

debtinfo wrote: »

Yes i have, thank you

I'm sure the OP will tell us what this particular Debt Collection Company does!

debt_doctor

...Yes it will be interesting to see if this ever ends up as a creditors petition. I have seen quite a few trade creditors make people bankrupt when there was no chance of obtaining any monies from the bankruptcy estate.
The last thing I would expect a District Judge to do at a creditors petition hearing is grant an instalment order.

DD

alastairq

I have seen quite a few trade creditors make people bankrupt when there was no chance of obtaining any monies from the bankruptcy estate.

Is this a case of 'punishment' rather than any attempt to realise assets?

Or..a creditors misconception of what constitutes an asset?

Or perhaps, the creditor 'see's' the debtor apparently living a high life, thinking they'll get their hands on some of that...only to find the debtor has no significant assets and has in fact been 'treated' by others...?

I know full well that, if some kind person had offered to take me on a £10000 cruise during my undischarged period, I would not have remotely considered what creditors might have thought.....!

I would have informed the OR, just to keep things straight....that I was being given a treat.....but I wouldn't turn down the offer!

The last thing I would expect a District Judge to do at a creditors petition hearing is grant an instalment order.

I realise Judges like to keep attention on the 'matter-in-hand', so as not to muddy the waters...but....if the debtor placed a challenge before Court, on the grounds that they have 'offered' to pay by 'reasonable' instalments.....[in other words, negotiations regarding the debt have NOT been exhausted]......if the Judge were persuaded so, would the petition be refused....with the creditor then having to go back to Court to seek a CCJ?



I ask this because posts in the past have suggested that....when an individual has been threatened with, or received, notice of a BR petition against them [HMRC, for example]...part of the return advice has been for the debtor to contact the Court, to state they do not object to the BR petition being granted.

debtinfo

alastairq wrote: »

Is this a case of 'punishment' rather than any attempt to realise assets?

Or..a creditors misconception of what constitutes an asset?

Or perhaps, the creditor 'see's' the debtor apparently living a high life, thinking they'll get their hands on some of that...only to find the debtor has no significant assets and has in fact been 'treated' by others...?

I know full well that, if some kind person had offered to take me on a £10000 cruise during my undischarged period, I would not have remotely considered what creditors might have thought.....!

I would have informed the OR, just to keep things straight....that I was being given a treat.....but I wouldn't turn down the offer!



I realise Judges like to keep attention on the 'matter-in-hand', so as not to muddy the waters...but....if the debtor placed a challenge before Court, on the grounds that they have 'offered' to pay by 'reasonable' instalments.....[in other words, negotiations regarding the debt have NOT been exhausted]......if the Judge were persuaded so, would the petition be refused....with the creditor then having to go back to Court to seek a CCJ?



I ask this because posts in the past have suggested that....when an individual has been threatened with, or received, notice of a BR petition against them [HMRC, for example]...part of the return advice has been for the debtor to contact the Court, to state they do not object to the BR petition being granted.

Im sure for some creditors it may be motivated by punishment and also some are misguided by the belief that they will get something even when no assets/income exists, and are then sorely dissapointed.

There are other reasons though, for instance a debtor may be income poor but asset rich where they cannot afford a payment scheme but have assets that are hard to get at which a bankruptcy may eventually get to.

Another thing to consider is that the creditor quite often has incomplete information so they dont really know what the debtor does or doesnot have and whilst im sure most of the people on here are honest there are debtors who will lie to their creditors to avoid payment.

Another one is that the creditor may realise that they stand little chance of being paid but if they believe that the debtor has been ripping people off, a builder who takes the money but does not complete the work for instance and may jave done that to more than just themselves they may want for the person to be brought to the attention of the authorities such as the OR who has the power to make a full investigation into the dealings of the debtor and take approrpiate action, so its not always about the money (but mostly is)

As to the court date, bankruptcy is not really meant to be about debt collection, it is more a state of being, so if the debtor does agree to pay a small amount each month it does not really change the fact that the conditions for bankruptcy ie not being able to pay the debt as it falls due, do still exist.

If the bankruptcy was not granted it would not automatically go to a ccj, it would just be rejected, the creditor would need to make a seperate application for that

alastairq

As to the court date, bankruptcy is not really meant to be about debt collection, it is more a state of being, so if the debtor does agree to pay a small amount each month it does not really change the fact that the conditions for bankruptcy ie not being able to pay the debt as it falls due, do still exist.

Bearing the above in mind...why are so many people concerned the Judge may actually refuse their petition?

Especially given that 'half' the population are technically insolvent....ie could not pay off all their debts 'as they fall due'...but instead, rely upon manageable re-payment agreements?

debtinfo

alastairq wrote: »

Bearing the above in mind...why are so many people concerned the Judge may actually refuse their petition?

Especially given that 'half' the population are technically insolvent....ie could not pay off all their debts 'as they fall due'...but instead, rely upon manageable re-payment agreements?

I dont know why people worry, as you know a rejection almost never happens on a debtors petition, and if it does it is usually for not taking advice rather than not being insolvent

alastairq

I ask this because posts in the past have suggested that....when an individual has been threatened with, or received, notice of a BR petition against them [HMRC, for example]...part of the return advice has been for the debtor to contact the Court, to state they do not object to the BR petition being granted.

I ask regarding creditors' petitions, since it appears that the granting of those petitions isn't as 'automatic' as a debtor's petition?

If this is the case, what sorts of grounds would compel a Judge to refuse a creditor's petition?