Real life MMD: Snooping revealed I'm underpaid - should I ask for a rise?

Maddox

I'm with Cheerful on this. Strict secrecy about wages and salaries work only to the benefit of employers. But joining a union would surely enrage the bosses. The dissatisfied workers could always make an informal approach to an appropriate union for advice - it must be a common problem.

bardseyboy_2

Bit of confusion here! Do you mean that the cleaning ladies got together and showed each other their payslips? If so, what's sneaky about that? Could not the ladies who are paid less than the others jointly approach their manager and politely ask why they get less? Trouble is, if they don't like the answer what can they do about it? It's all very well some posters telling them to vote with their feet, but other jobs aren't necessarily easy to come by these days. Legally, they're entitled to the minimum wage, so if they're not getting that they should ask Citizens Advice for help.Any of them in a trade union? -- that's another way to get help and support. You just don't know how management will react, but they can't sack you for asking -- that would be unfair dismissal.

Dan_Thunder

JenE wrote: »

the two of us were both women, whilst the new starter was a man (as was the line manager) so felt a bit like us 'girlies' were being taken for fools. The new starter left within 6 months as he couldn't fulfil the role (and to be fair, didn't get much support from us as his colleagues).

That seems a bit unfair on the new guy. If he managed to negotiate a better rate of pay then good for him, that's no reason not to support him.

Anyway, regarding the original post. If the OP wants a pay rise then go to your manager/supervisor and explain what you do that warrants one. By that I mean how you bring value to the company and not how other people are paid more. I don't know the legalities within your company but most places want proof of how people work above and beyond their current role before giving them a rise.

Not wanting to make assumptions but the fact is that some people at the same grade often earn more than others because they either bring more value to a company or they work harder.

fairynuf

Do the staff never have meetings where they can discuss any work-related matters with management? There should be no reason to 'snoop' on other 'colleagues' rates of pay unless the staff have been told they are not allowed to talk to each other about what they earn. It is interesting that the majority of workers feel they are underpaid not that a couple of workers are overpaid. This would suggest that there is a general feeling of disgruntlement over the wage rate therefore the workers should be able to openly discuss the pay rate at a staff meeting to enable harmonious team work.

oldnewhand

This is made difficult because the wording of the dilemma isn't clear. If ALL the girls check each other's payslips what is sneaky about it? If they are all on the same grade I would have thought for a cleaning job that should have attracted the same wage as number of years experience/ what you bring to the company etc is less likely to have an impact. In this case those on the lower wage would be able to openly and politely ask if they could have an explanation why x and y got more.
If however, as I suspect SOME of the girls snooped and found out that some others got more, then they need to be very careful whith what they do with this information gained dishonestly. There are huge implications as hotel cleaners are in a position of trust.
They might be able to initiate a discussion about making ends meet and lead into rates of pay so those on the higher rate disclosed their rate willingly, otherwise negotiate a better rate on merit or shut up and put up with it. It's the penalty for being nosey, they accepted the job at that rate in the first place.

Orange_wasps

The first thing they could do is check that they are being paid at least the National Minimum Wage (assuming they are over 18 it's £6.08). If their basic hourly rate is less they should raise it with their employer who is obliged by law to pay the minimum. Also, if the other people who are allegedly receiving more for the same or broadly similar work, and are willing to tell the complainants what they are getting paid, then they could also have a claim under Equal Pay legislation. Suggest that if they want to investigate either of these avenues they talk to Citizens Advice.

Irv_the_Swerve

If you are paid less than someone doing the same work as you and you know the company has rated your work as good, then the thing to do is to tell your manager that you happen to know (saying it doesn't matter How you know) that they are paid more for no apparent reason and mention the actual rate of pay.
My experience is that this this can be very embarrassing to organisations and there is a good chance you will get your rise on the basis that you keep shtum!

weelizzie_2

All depends what you mean by 'snooping' - did they just talk to each other or did someone access private information? If so I imagine this would be considered professional misconduct and probably grounds for dismissal.

I think pay secrecy clauses are difficult to enforce following the Equalities Act 2010, but I would tread extremely carefully on this one. Personally I would keep quiet but make sure I present my case for getting a pay rise at the next opportunity.

I have been in the awkward position of discovering I earned more than a more experienced colleague, but it was purely because my employer matched my old salary when I joined the company. Could be the same here?

gordothegopher

I work in the hotel industry. There are many reasons why cleaners may be on a higher hourly rate than others in the same grade. Without knowing the full facts, it's hard to say for definite, but possibilities include:

The higher paid employees have been with the company longer and recieved more annual increased. As others have said, they be be on older/different contracts.

Some are agency staff while others employed by the hotel directly

Do the higher paid staff work the evening/weekend shifts. Many hotels give a higher rate to those staff working the less popular shifts

Depending on the type of hotel, they may be paid higher for being trained to do more e.g. They may be responsible for making up premium/executive rooms or suites which may be made up to a higher standard

Have they won any internal incentive awards/recognition programmes? Many hotels offer an X salary increase as part of a recognition scheme

The higher paid cleaners may have had more hotel housekeeping experience than the others when they were employed. Hotels, and many other businesses will pay a higher rate for someone with more experience (it keeps their training costs down)

Just some examples

Unless the higher paid cleaners do exactly the same job, have been employee at the same time etc it's hard to compare

What your aunts boyfriend should do is ask his employer how pay rates are determined, and if there is any opportunity for him to increase his by taking on additional responsibility or working different shift patterns. This avoids revealing the snooping, and likely to have a more positive effect than a "that's not fair" approach.

Ebenezer_Screwj

mayling03 wrote: »

There may be a good reason why they are on more per hour? Do they have an old contract? With regard to asking for a payrise, you need to firstly give a good reason and justify yourself as the company will not pay anymore than necessary. If others are on more per hour, this is a poor excuse.

Best thing to dois, write down a few strong points as to why you want a payrise without revealing the information you have discovered. If they refuse, and you're not happy, then upsticks and go. No point of complaining.

This answer is spot on, I cannot add anything to it.