Real life MMD: Snooping revealed I'm underpaid - should I ask for a rise?

springswood

I'm amazed no one has mentioned yet that how valuable it would be to discuss this situation with a Trade Union. They surely would be the experts in how to deal with a situation like this.

Wendybytheriver

Surely this can't be classed as "snooping"... if the girls SHOW each other their payslips, or even just TELL each other what they earn, that's not sneaky, that's their personal choice to share their own financial information?
I feel any employers who actually ban staff talking about their pay must have something to hide.
Maybe it's my age ( ! ) but in the last 40 years, wherever I've worked, pay has been a regular topic of conversation!
Is this reluctance to talk about it a generation thing?

redglass_2

I'm amazed at some of the spiteful screeches that have been posted here, foaming at the mouth at the very idea of cleaners having some information that an employer didn't want them to. On the face of things, they are not being fairly paid. If that's because of some old contract, then the company should be open about it and everybody should know the system in place. If the cleaners choose to pool information, (nobody said anything about steaming open envelopes!) well, GOOD FOR THEM. As far as I know we are not yet transporting people for such heinous crimes. I bet they are paid peanuts anyway, why shouldn't they discuss it?
Cleaners - get unionised. Good luck.
Employers - be open about what's going on.
Some of the posters on here - get back to the 18th century where you can lecture the poor about the wickedness of joining together for better conditions. (You'd better stop using this site though: there's lots of information here that businesses probably wouldn't like you to have. But of course you wouldn't dream of making use of it, would you? ) :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

JenE_2

This happened to me in a previous role, but I didn't find out by 'snooping', if that's what this scenario is. The individual was newly appointed and had negotiated hard to join at the top of the pay band, when the two of us who were already doing the same role had been there longer but were only part way up the band. The new starter gave himself away in a meeting and when we raised it with our line manager as a query, he admitted that the new guy was paid a lot more than we were. The line manager defended his decision, but in the end did equalise our pay with the new starter. It created a lot of bad feeling as it was clear that the new starter was not performing at the same level as the two of us (not just from our point of view - we had a lot of other people saying the same), and the two of us were both women, whilst the new starter was a man (as was the line manager) so felt a bit like us 'girlies' were being taken for fools. The new starter left within 6 months as he couldn't fulfil the role (and to be fair, didn't get much support from us as his colleagues).

So yes, whilst we all do bring something different to any organisation we work for, the need for people to feel equally recognised, in pay and other areas, for equal work is hugely important. And in the public sector at least, the risk to the employer of equal pay claims is significant where discrimination could be proven.

To request any pay rise you need to prove YOUR worth to the organisation - we knew that the two of us were pretty irreplaceable (the new guy had only been appointed after more than one attempt at recruitment) and so we did have a strong position.

alfielibby

The OP stated "all the girls sneakily check each others' payslips".
1. If they're all checking each other's payslips, why not just discuss it with each other? There's myriad reasons why one could be earning more than another.
2. If only some of them are sneakily looking at their colleagues payslips, this implies that they are doing it without the knowledge of the persons whose payslips they're looking at and they should all be sacked immediately. They're openly admitting to be being dishonest; cleaners, in my opinion, have a bad enough time being accused of being light fingered/untrustworthy, without actually admitting to rifling through other people's belongings!

PS I'm not a cleaner myself: I've always worked in offices and whenever something's disappearred, the poor ol' cleaners always get the blame.

BNT

Surely, someone's pay is based on the value the he adds to a company and how good he is at negotiating.

By all means ask for more if you think you are worth more, but don't base your argument on what someone else is being paid!

denmandaisy

You're under absolutely no obligation to tell the employer how you came across the information , just that you are aware that the same job is being paid differently for the same responsibilities and hours. I work in an industry where men, longer serving staff (less skilled) or older staff seem to think they are due more - I think it is a matter of responsibility and input to the workplace that counts and as such, same duties to receive same pay. That said, there's a level of personal repsonsbility to contract of employment that is your own responsibility.

However .....
- I would suggest if you were to say you had snooped, you would open yourself up to dismissal or conduct procedures - hence dont go down the route of admitting that you actively snooped, - There's a difference if the information was carelessly 'left lying around' i.e at a printer or on a bench, and you didn't have to touch/move/open it to see the information (ok to see) versus you actively opening a pay slip (not ok)

- I would ethically suggest that your aunt asks on her own behalf for salary slips to be more carefully managed - I can't say I blame anyone for looking if the information is laid in front of someone but if that information is unsecurely 'left around' by the employer then I think it's the employers responsibility to clean up their act. If its the girls themselves who are leaving the slips around, well, more fool then, but perhaps it would be nice if someone had the choice or not to act on it.

EccentricRavenJewellery

The question didn't specify how long the aunt has been working for the company, nor how long the other girls have been. Is it possible that pay rises with long service?
A few jobs are even advertised as being £X, rising to £Y after 2 years successful service, or however long.
So maybe the company, instead of trying to sneakily pay as little as they can, is rewarding the loyalty of dedicated workers who've stuck to the company? And possibly this is something for the aunt to aim for? Keeping head down and getting on well in the hopes of achieving her long service pay rise?

I admit if the company are not being systematic about it but just signing people on the lowest salary possible it's unethical, but it could be fairer than some people think.
Maybe chat to ACAS? They can advise of legal position?

But I do think if the company are rewarding long service, they should make it clear in contracts or employee information/website

floydy17

There could well be a good reason. My daughter works at a hotel and found out that many of her colleagues are on higher hourly rates (not by snooping, but just by chatting to her workmates!)

Turns out the hotel has a policy of issuing annual pay rises on an incremental scale, so a higher wage is purely down to seniority. Otherwise, everyone starts on the same hourly rate, whether 16 or 60!

pennypinchUK

No. 1 rule of working life. Never ask a colleague how much they get paid. Never. It only creates jealousy and bad feeling. There are many reasons why one person may be paid more than another. If you were content with the rate you're getting before you snooped you should leave well alone. At your next review you've got the opportunity to pitch your worth, and if that gets you a higher increase good luck to you.