Self Employed, no set hours and Working Tax Credit. Help Please.

ACon

Its good to know, but I'm not worried as we've never claimed WTC (bar those 3 weeks he has documented paid hours) before. At the moment he can document paid 25-30hours a week easily, and 10 hrs driving a wk. I was just worried for the weeks he may have less, but in those weeks he will be looking for contracts, driving to quotes etc so as long as I keep on top of him and his diary, making sure things are noted down there shouldn't be a problem. Being able to claim tax credits is sometimes the difference between jacking it in and going on the dole, or sticking through a rough few weeks, so I dont think people should be made to feel bad for wanting to claim.

fogartyblue.

ACon wrote: »

Its good to know, but I'm not worried as we've never claimed WTC (bar those 3 weeks he has documented paid hours) before. At the moment he can document paid 25-30hours a week easily, and 10 hrs driving a wk. I was just worried for the weeks he may have less, but in those weeks he will be looking for contracts, driving to quotes etc so as long as I keep on top of him and his diary, making sure things are noted down there shouldn't be a problem. Being able to claim tax credits is sometimes the difference between jacking it in and going on the dole, or sticking through a rough few weeks, so I dont think people should be made to feel bad for wanting to claim.

This is yet another example of the scammers and scroungers finding ways round the system that benefits them - maximum benefit income for minimum disruption to their lives.

Unfortunately, like in every case, in order to put a stop to their antics everybody is made to suffer.

Sixer

fogartyblue. wrote: »

This is yet another example of the scammers and scroungers finding ways round the system that benefits them - maximum benefit income for minimum disruption to their lives.

Unfortunately, like in every case, in order to put a stop to their antics everybody is made to suffer.

Rubbish. And please don't directly attack posters in this forum.

Sometimes, perfectly legitimate businesses make low profits, under the equivalent of NMW. The owners of these businesses are perfectly entitled to tax credits on their income.

Some people may try to scam the system. But don't tar everyone with the same brush.

NoBS_2

Sixer wrote: »

Rubbish. And please don't directly attack posters in this forum.

Sometimes, perfectly legitimate businesses make low profits, under the equivalent of NMW. The owners of these businesses are perfectly entitled to tax credits on their income.

Some people may try to scam the system. But don't tar everyone with the same brush.

Well said. Not forgetting most self employed start-ups will begin with a loss and gradually show growth (still under NMW level but moving in the right direction)

It is those that show no growth whatsoever and no apparent desire to make money from their business that should worry. Those working hard and striving to find hours, work and pay are doing the right things.

fogartyblue.

NoBS wrote: »

Well said. Not forgetting most self employed start-ups will begin with a loss and gradually show growth (still under NMW level but moving in the right direction)

It is those that show no growth whatsoever and no apparent desire to make money from their business that should worry. Those working hard and striving to find hours, work and pay are doing the right things.

Providing that they can prove just two simple things to HMRC.

1. that the hours worked every week are genuine.
2. that the work they are doing is seen to be a full time business and that there is an expectation in the short term that they will be earning their own income from it.

Sixer

fogartyblue. wrote: »

Providing that they can prove just two simple things to HMRC.

1. that the hours worked every week are genuine.
2. that the work they are doing is seen to be a full time business and that there is an expectation in the short term that they will be earning their own income from it.

There's no requirement for the business to be full-time (and no definition of full-time, come to that).

Edinburghlass_2

fogartyblue. wrote: »

Providing that they can prove just two simple things to HMRC.

1. that the hours worked every week are genuine.
2. that the work they are doing is seen to be a full time business and that there is an expectation in the short term that they will be earning their own income from it.

Says the person who was claiming unemployment benefit while being self employed

Anubis_2

kezlou wrote: »

hi, were self employed at the moment. My partner is a plumber/ gas engineer so never know what happening on a weekly basis.

What we've done is declared full times hours i.e over 30hrs and we claim tax credits based on that.

But you have to take everything into account regarding hours.
For instance he's does a quote:

2 hrs driving and to quote for the property
1 hr actually doing the quote and discussing what needs to be done with the client
3 hrs sourcing material and reckoning up the quote

So easily 6 hours to do one quote.
Say he does this 5 days a week this equals up to 30 hours a week and full entitlement to working tax credits.

Yes he hasn't earned anything fiscal wise but he has worked the hours as stated.

If he takes a trip to the merchants and is there an hours looking at materials , that counts towards his hours.

So does bookkeeping,sending letters, phoning merchants / clients, speaking to various advertising people. do the accounting, ordering materials.Taking the van to garage to get checked out. It all adds up

Oh and tax credits is worked out on earnings, but when you first claim you basically give an estimate to say what you may earn in the the financial year £10495 for 2012-2013 and your working 30 hours a week. You then have till January 2013 work everything out for the whole of 2012-2013 the tax year and declare your earnings. As your self employed you can never know how much you've earnt till the end of the financial tax year anyway.

If you need any help just give us a shout .

That seems a very generous amount, so I would presume such hours on one quote are not the norm?

3 hours to price source materials is a huge amount of time as someone who is self employed would know their suppliers? Also it takes five minutes on the net to do price comparisons if not?

It seems hard to prove hours, but if HMRC allow 3 hours for people to source prices for materials for pricing a quote - let alone allowing a total 6 hours for a single quote, then HMRC seem very liberal.

Sixer

Anubis wrote: »

That seems a very generous amount, so I would presume such hours on one quote are not the norm?

3 hours to price source materials is a huge amount of time as someone who is self employed would know their suppliers? Also it takes five minutes on the net to do price comparisons if not?

It seems hard to prove hours, but if HMRC allow 3 hours for people to source prices for materials for pricing a quote - let alone allowing a total 6 hours for a single quote, then HMRC seem very liberal.

If you're a plumber installing a central heating system, for example, you'd need to QS (quantity survey) what you'd need. For some people, you might need to calculate the optimum capacity for the system. You don't want to overspecify and cost the customer a fortune in heating bills, but you want them to be warm enough too.

There are calculations involved. In some other trades - say, kitchen fitting or conservatory installing - you might need to produce drawings and illustrations.

I can quite imagine complex jobs take 3 hours to quote. Not all plumbing is replacing the ball valve in the downstairs loo.

fogartyblue.

Sixer wrote: »

There's no requirement for the business to be full-time (and no definition of full-time, come to that).

OK I will reword it for you.

If someone is claiming the extra saying that they are working 30 + hours a week, then you will have to demonstrate that that is the case every week.

Likewise for the 24 hour rule as well as the 16 hour rule.

And full time is accepted by HMRC as meaning 30 hours or more a week.