School appeals - help offered

susancs

Lexiee wrote: »

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I mean, I want to be able to say to them that if they're happy to have 30 pupils in those classrooms next year then they can't claim prejudice by admitting one extra this year surely?

Lexiee, if the extra classroom being build in 2015 is to accomodate reception class children, then the school may well argue that the size of the current reception classroom will only allow allow them to accomodate the existing PAN until September 2015.

Lexiee, if you have not already done so, I would put your child on the waiting list and keep checking where they are on it, as often places become available nearer September.

dragon1964

Spendless wrote: »

dragon1964 - a local authority looked after child, is the 1st criteria where I live and you'd get in your first choice school. It comes above catchment where I am.

What was the criteria order for the schools of your choice?

Did you have to submit evidence that you were applying for a place for a looked after child?

hi thanks for getting back to me , no did not tick box but did write on application form that i had residence order for my granddaughter . checked my school admissions form because couldn't remember what id put and i definitely put about residence order . they are as follows. i copied and pasted the following below checked the priority's children in the care of a local authority (children in care) and previously looked after children. Previously looked after children are children who were looked after, but ceased to be so because they were adopted (or became subject to a residence order or special guardianship order). In order to be offered a place under this priority you will need to supply proof of the child's status. This could be a copy of the order or adoption certificate. If you are not sure what to provide, please contact the School Admissions team.
compelling medical or other exceptional reasons for attending the school
sibling link providing the family home is within the catchment area.
catchment area- these had changed last year.
other children (if none of the previous priorities apply to your child, he/she will be placed in this category)

dragon1964

dragon1964 wrote: »

hi thanks for getting back to me , no did not tick box but did write on application form that i had residence order for my granddaughter . checked my school admissions form because couldn't remember what id put and i definitely put about residence order . they are as follows. i copied and pasted the following below checked the priority's children in the care of a local authority (children in care) and previously looked after children. Previously looked after children are children who were looked after, but ceased to be so because they were adopted (or became subject to a residence order or special guardianship order). In order to be offered a place under this priority you will need to supply proof of the child's status. This could be a copy of the order or adoption certificate. If you are not sure what to provide, please contact the School Admissions team.
compelling medical or other exceptional reasons for attending the school
sibling link providing the family home is within the catchment area.
catchment area- these had changed last year.
other children (if none of the previous priorities apply to your child, he/she will be placed in this category)

when i rung school admissions said i didn't send supporting evidence as in a copy of residence order told me to send it in within week . took it out and delivered it in person and got a receipt for it. told i still needed to appeal .

Lexiee

susancs wrote: »

Lexiee, if the extra classroom being build in 2015 is to accomodate reception class children, then the school may well argue that the size of the current reception classroom will only allow allow them to accomodate the existing PAN until September 2015.

Lexiee, if you have not already done so, I would put your child on the waiting list and keep checking where they are on it, as often places become available nearer September.

Thanks guys.

Our names have automatically gone down on the waitlist as we have appealed. They're collating the list tomorrow as it's the deadline for accepting places so I'll ring and ask what no. we are. I was just thinking more about questions to ask the admission authority at the hearing really, if they'll be putting classes of 30 in those rooms next year without modifying them, they surely can't argue that 23 instead of 22 pupils would cause prejudice. Unless they'd be hiring more staff? Not two teachers for a 30 class?

Spendless

dragon1964 wrote: »

hi thanks for getting back to me. No did not tick box but did write on application form that i had residence order for my granddaughter.

Checked my school admissions form because couldn't remember what id put and i definitely put about residence order.

They are as follows. i copied and pasted the following below checked the priority's children

In the care of a local authority (children in care) and previously looked after children.

Previously looked after children are children who were looked after, but ceased to be so because they were adopted (or became subject to a residence order or special guardianship order). In order to be offered a place under this priority you will need to supply proof of the child's status. This could be a copy of the order or adoption certificate. If you are not sure what to provide, please contact the School Admissions team.


compelling medical or other exceptional reasons for attending the school


sibling link providing the family home is within the catchment area.


catchment area- these had changed last year.


other children (if none of the previous priorities apply to your child, he/she will be placed in this category)

dragon1964 wrote: »

when i rung school admissions said i didn't send supporting evidence as in a copy of residence order told me to send it in within week . took it out and delivered it in person and got a receipt for it. told i still needed to appeal .

Did you originally send in the supporting evidence with your initial application? If you didn't this is why you haven't got a place as you'll have had a lower down category applied to your Grandchild. I'm not clear that you did from what you've said above or are you saying that the admissions team lost it? If it was initially lost are you able to prove that you sent it in at your appeal?

I'm no expert. My experience of school application forms purely comes from filling in so many x 2 kids (as mine went to school nursery, infant, junior, secondary and each needed a new application) and knowing some people who had to appeal, but I am wondering if the outcome of an appeal will be different if you haven't submitted requested info to start off with rather than you can prove that you sent the right info in and the correct criteria hasn't been applied to your Grandchild's place


(btw put some of your post in paragraphs when quoting cos I was finding it hard to read, hope you don't mind, guess you are typing from a phone)

noregrets

dragon1964 wrote: »

Hi I don't know if you can help me . i applied for three schools for my granddaughter who i have a residence order for and has lived with me since 2007 . she was put in my care with her brother and removed from her parental home for reason that i would not wish to put in this email . but they were quite serious and I will leave it to your imagination . both children have not seen this parent for over 4 yrs . we did not get one of our three schools and i was under the impression that as a ( L A C ) LOOKED AFTER CHILD she should get priority.I really could do with some useful tips when going to appeal. the school we was given was not one of our three and is an area frequented by the parent who no longer see's the children and this parent hangs around with some really undesirable people . but the school we was given is the closest to us but is totally unsuitable . please has anyone got any tips , i am getting so stressed about this . i also sent a letter declining the school that we was offered to us .people keep telling me i should of accepted the place , but why would i accept a place at a school i don't want my granddaughter to go to.

Hi Dragon. I'm writing as someone who used to work in school admissions for a LA and also presented appeals up until last Autumn. The firrst issue here is whether she was classed as a Child Looked After prior to the residence order being issued. If she was never officially designated as Looked After then she wouldn't qualify under this rule.

If however she was Looked After before the residence order, then it would have been up to you to provide the LA with the relevant confirmation in good time before allocations were made and ideally on or before the closing date for applications. The Appeal Panel will not consider that the LA acted unreasonably if you didnt give them the information until after the date when the allocations were made.

However having said all that, you would be able to argue the case at appeal on the grounds of what was in the best interests for your granddaughter. Did the school allow you to apply under social or compassionate grounds for example? If not, then you could then raise those issues at the appeal. Although you are appealing FOR the school you want, you do also have valid reasons why it would be against her interests to go to the school that you have been offered. Remember the appeal panel will not know any of this information and you should be as open and honest as you can be about why it is so important that your GD goes to that specific school. Have a look at the information on the ACE appeals website (I'm afraid I cant post the link here) which is an independent advice centre and has free booklets to download for more advice about the appeals process and one I often used to refer parents to.

Hope this is helpful

dragon1964

noregrets wrote: »

Hi Dragon. I'm writing as someone who used to work in school admissions for a LA and also presented appeals up until last Autumn. The firrst issue here is whether she was classed as a Child Looked After prior to the residence order being issued. If she was never officially designated as Looked After then she wouldn't qualify under this rule.

If however she was Looked After before the residence order, then it would have been up to you to provide the LA with the relevant confirmation in good time before allocations were made and ideally on or before the closing date for applications. The Appeal Panel will not consider that the LA acted unreasonably if you didnt give them the information until after the date when the allocations were made.

However having said all that, you would be able to argue the case at appeal on the grounds of what was in the best interests for your granddaughter. Did the school allow you to apply under social or compassionate grounds for example? If not, then you could then raise those issues at the appeal. Although you are appealing FOR the school you want, you do also have valid reasons why it would be against her interests to go to the school that you have been offered. Remember the appeal panel will not know any of this information and you should be as open and honest as you can be about why it is so important that your GD goes to that specific school. Have a look at the information on the ACE appeals website (I'm afraid I cant post the link here) which is an independent advice centre and has free booklets to download for more advice about the appeals process and one I often used to refer parents to.

Hope this is helpful

my granddaughter came straight from parents home to me . i was the one the informed social services that i had them . they were placed on the at rick register until the residence order was complete . i did not realize i was meant to send residence order presumed they would contact me to send it to them . another grandparent done exactly the same as me and didn't send her order in either . it really wasn't clear on the form .

dragon1964

Spendless wrote: »

Did you originally send in the supporting evidence with your initial application? If you didn't this is why you haven't got a place as you'll have had a lower down category applied to your Grandchild. I'm not clear that you did from what you've said above or are you saying that the admissions team lost it? If it was initially lost are you able to prove that you sent it in at your appeal?

I'm no expert. My experience of school application forms purely comes from filling in so many x 2 kids (as mine went to school nursery, infant, junior, secondary and each needed a new application) and knowing some people who had to appeal, but I am wondering if the outcome of an appeal will be different if you haven't submitted requested info to start off with rather than you can prove that you sent the right info in and the correct criteria hasn't been applied to your Grandchild's place


(btw put some of your post in paragraphs when quoting cos I was finding it hard to read, hope you don't mind, guess you are typing from a phone)

sorry i copied and pasted so of it .was well proud of myself as me and computers definitely don't go together

susancs

Lexiee wrote: »

Thanks guys.

Our names have automatically gone down on the waitlist as we have appealed. They're collating the list tomorrow as it's the deadline for accepting places so I'll ring and ask what no. we are. I was just thinking more about questions to ask the admission authority at the hearing really, if they'll be putting classes of 30 in those rooms next year without modifying them, they surely can't argue that 23 instead of 22 pupils would cause prejudice. Unless they'd be hiring more staff? Not two teachers for a 30 class?

Lexie, they may well not plan to change from vertical banding mixed year group classrooms of 30 pupils to straight 30 place year groups until September 2016 (i.e having an extra class with teacher), as that will be when the September 2015 Reception cohort of 30 children will move up to year 1. That would mean that there will not necessarily be a place available in the mixed year 1/2 class for the 23rd child from the 2014 entry Reception class, for them to move up to this class in September 2015 i.e. 22 places for reception children and 8 remaining from the year 1/2 class, with the maximum infant class size being 30. Also there may be several appeals for places this year, so it may not be a case of just one extra child.

Another possibility is that the school has a small Reception classroom, whose indoor floor space according to the legislation relating to the free space per child required ( The Statutory Framework for the Early Years Foundation framwork, 3.57), only allows them to have 22 children. This might be why they are building an extra larger classroom to accomodate the 30 pupil reception class. In some schools who operated vertical banding I have seen a large junior classroom used as a library or computer room and later re-used as a classroom, when building work elsewhere allowed them to move the library etc into another space ( maybe the existing reception class in this case ) so this could explain the no extra modification required or building work elsewhere, apart from the larger classroom for reception children.

I do not know if either these cases apply, but just pointing out that this may be the reasoning for sticking to the the 22 PAN for this years entry.

tiny_courageous

dragon1964 wrote: »

my granddaughter came straight from parents home to me . i was the one the informed social services that i had them . they were placed on the at rick register until the residence order was complete . i did not realize i was meant to send residence order presumed they would contact me to send it to them . another grandparent done exactly the same as me and didn't send her order in either . it really wasn't clear on the form .

Was she ever officially "looked after". If she came straight to you from her parents, were you ever assessed as a foster carer? Has she ever been in foster care? From how you describe it, sounds like it would have been a "family arrangement" rather than LAC.
You may well still have grounds for appeal based on the circumstances but it's going to be important to clarify if your granddaughter was ever officially a looked after child.