IT entry level work - Why are IT recruiters so impossible?

1stTimer

How about doing what i did and going about it another way....

I applied for a job as an office junior in an international corporation when i was 17, no experience needed just a general dogsbody handing out faxes, letters etc.
During my time in that role (approx 5 years) i got to build on my social skills and meet all different people from all the different departments, some never gave me the time of day, others were a lot nicer but i learnt who in what department were forthcoming.
3 years in i decided i wanted to join the Tech team supporting the systems so i asked if i could sit with them when my day was over ( i used to finish at 4pm and they did shift work)
They agreed and we scheduled 3 nights a week i would shadow them, as i had a regular income too i ordered a home learning MCSA training kit.
cutting a long story short after 2 years of proving to them that i was willing to learn and out of my own time/pocket too they found a role for me, that was 7 years ago and i am now managing that department.
It was a mixture of social skills, hard work and dedication that got me here not experience - that comes with time (although it also helps)

TrickyWicky

Thanks Ringo and 1stTimer

marybelle, some of your advice in your last post was quite helpful. Thats 3 of you pointing me towards a degree.. Looks like that may be my next move then.

marybelle01

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Thanks Ringo and 1stTimer

marybelle, some of your advice in your last post was quite helpful. Thats 3 of you pointing me towards a degree.. Looks like that may be my next move then.

Wow! Backhanded compliment or what? No wonder everyone else thinks you are an arrogant !!!!!!!. You are. I'm out and that's the last advice I give you. Ignore list, here you come. With that attitude it's no wonder you can't get a job.

princessdon

My OH works in IT and the main thing that puts him off giving people with no quals a chance is the "list of skills" that they put on their CV with no work and or work experience.

some of them have done everything in the world - yet never had a job. He always takes someone who says they enjoy tinkering, problem solving and are looking for the chance to LEARN. Those that indicate they know already for 1st/low level are thrown away.

He wants someone who has the key instincts that a good IT person needs, but wants to mould them and not have them going all maverick, making changes without CM and willing to work their way up.

Pehaps your CV has too many skills?

prowla

Perhaps you could look at doing some voluntary work, which might then demonstrate to prospective employers that you can work in an operational environment.

[Deleted User]

Maybe if you focus your job hunt a little...e.g. A few years ago when I came to jump into IT, I directed myself towards healthcare IT (and now work in healthcare software integration). I knew a few of the support team guys. All thought that phone support was the way to get a foot in the door. Few managed to leave that department.

In my little bit of IT, you are best being able to be highly adaptable and able to pick up new skills at the drop of a hat

MrChandlerBing

The world has changed. I've a degree in computer science and it took me months to find my IT job. At every interview I went to I was competing with people who had BSc and Masters. Other people had lots of experience.

This is for the first line roles you are going for. Just having used computers as a hobby isn't enough anymore. Look at the amount of applications each job gets!

Either get more qualified or move on.

poet123

You are deluding yourself if you really believe that in this time of unemployment employers won't recruit the best qualified candidate, regardless of what the job specified.

If you get a lot of applications for a role, those without formal qualifications will not make the first cut. That is the reality. Harsh though it may seem, a line in the sand has to be found, a separator used, and that is ultimately what it comes down to.

You need to back up the experience with quals tailored to the specific area of the industry which appeals, or the one with the broadest overall appeal. That means looking at degree syllabus and asking questions (assuming you have the necessary quals to do a degree?if not start there) and doing in depth research.

Even a degree in the field is no guarantee of a job but it will be a start. Do it now before you miss the opportunity to start in September and waste even more time. Good luck!

heathcote123

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Ok, I've been trying to get into IT for many years and i've had no luck.

I've applied for every entry level position I can with 1st line jobs, entry level support etc and in all the years of applying, I've had just ONE interview. Needless to say I ended up doing some really trashy jobs to make ends meet.

Since being unemployed for the last 1.5 years I've applied for a few - had the one interview mentioned above but nothing else. The one interview turned out to be a scam - I had to do a entire morning of interview stuff with group activities, interview, 2 written tests etc. I then found out I was up against people with degrees in IT so I clearly had no chance. Despite this, I noticed something very strange - the entire process (made up of IT staff) was very "We're superior to everyone because we work in IT and we'll be as picky as we want". It really was the weirdest IT interview (and most demanding) that I could have had for an entry position in *any* industry. I even took a small portfolio of freelance projects I'd worked on to show them my skills (one being a local government website) and they seemed to lap it up (even asking where I was getting the work from etc) but it got me nowhere.

I've no formal IT qualifications but I do have a lot of experience - everything from windows installs, networking, programming (delphi, php/mysql), etc yet this just doesn't seem to cut the mustard with IT people advertising entry positions. I worked in one job many moons ago where I was refused a job with their IT department yet given another job in their call centre. I consequently used to end up advising the IT guys and even speaking to the programmer of 'the system' reporting bugs and giving him new ideas for features to implement to make life easier for the call centre. Despite that, the management had absolutely no intention of giving me a chance.

So, where am I going so dreadfully wrong? What is the secret or key I am missing? How brown does my tongue need to be?

I've known at least two people who are earning over £40k with no real IT qualifications having got a foot in the door and worked their way up but I'm having no luck at all here.

Am I missing key qualifications? If so what should I be looking at and through what organisation and at what cost? I did one years ago and it was trash - I ended up proof reading their material and correcting it and explaining it to them in great detail. I cancelled that and have never found another course since that I felt I could trust.

I've also had zero luck asking people who work in IT or recruit in IT. I always get the vaguest answers possible from those who are supposed to be intelligent and know the most!

Please guys, help me out here..

I own a small IT support/installations company, and I hate recruitment with a passion. It's probably the single hardest bit of my job - getting the right people without paying silly money, and then getting them to stay.

The skills I am looking for most are problem solving ability, and being personable. Neither is useful without the other. But even the most personable trouble shooter wont get through the door without qualifications. Even for first line support - people pay a lot of money for proper IT support and they dont want someone who's guessing what to do.

Get some proper qualifications. A year and a half of unemployment with no quals done in that time shouts 'bin me'. Cisco, MS etc can all be studied in your own time and at very low cost - books of ebay andf a few old pc's is all it takes. I always specify MCSA/equivalent+ or demonstratably on the way to it as a minimum spec. You will not be taken seriously if you can't be bothered to do a few entry level exams. Much of the material covered by these exams may not be obviously useful at a first glance, but it's about learning the bigger picture, of how it all fits together, the dependencies between the various technologies. Personally I'd say the industry quals are going to open more doors to you & more quickly than a degree. A bog standard degree really does demonstrate very little over A levels. I'd rather have someone whos had those 3 years in job experience.

And as another poster mentioned, the basics; know them. During the interview I'll always have a section asking a candidate to describe the OSI stack along with a detailed explanation of how DNS works, and then expand upon them. (amazing how many people can do 10 years in IT and still not know, but thats why they're still applying for first line jobs). If you're going to list skills - don't overstate (it makes for embarrasing interviews) & make sure you can back them up. 'Wireless, Firewalls, VPN & TCP/IP' really does not count if it means configuring one netgear router, or rebooting it for someone else when it breaks.

Projects - if you're going to show some projects - and yes we love a good project, make sure it is something that has the appearance of professional work (ie something someone would pay for). Nothing will turn an interviewer off more quickly than showing some really amateur looking website. Better not to show it at all if it's rubbish.

If you do get a job, and you want to make recomendations of where systems are failing, make sure you understand them fully first & make it in a very constructive way, or you'll probably just annoy people.

And if you have the luxury of choosing, a job in a small solutions provider will boost your experience & give you far more coverage in different techs than a backup administrator for a blue chip.

Good luck. Hope that doesn't sound at all harsh, it's not meant to. Just trying to give you some insight into how people that actually do the employing may think.

Oh lastly. Don't be sick and dont be late. Especially for the first 3 months.

[Deleted User]

Woo, OSI stack. Taking it all the way to level 7 man

I always find it interesting what a range of 'IT Jobs' there out there. I'be only ever known the 'software deployment/consulting' bit of it. I expect only a few of my colleagues could name all parts of the stack, yet we deal with software integration. Our main requirement for new employees is 'sector knowldege', communication skills and an ability to learn new stuff quickly.