IT entry level work - Why are IT recruiters so impossible?

TrickyWicky

Ok, I've been trying to get into IT for many years and i've had no luck.

I've applied for every entry level position I can with 1st line jobs, entry level support etc and in all the years of applying, I've had just ONE interview. Needless to say I ended up doing some really trashy jobs to make ends meet.

Since being unemployed for the last 1.5 years I've applied for a few - had the one interview mentioned above but nothing else. The one interview turned out to be a scam - I had to do a entire morning of interview stuff with group activities, interview, 2 written tests etc. I then found out I was up against people with degrees in IT so I clearly had no chance. Despite this, I noticed something very strange - the entire process (made up of IT staff) was very "We're superior to everyone because we work in IT and we'll be as picky as we want". It really was the weirdest IT interview (and most demanding) that I could have had for an entry position in *any* industry. I even took a small portfolio of freelance projects I'd worked on to show them my skills (one being a local government website) and they seemed to lap it up (even asking where I was getting the work from etc) but it got me nowhere.

I've no formal IT qualifications but I do have a lot of experience - everything from windows installs, networking, programming (delphi, php/mysql), etc yet this just doesn't seem to cut the mustard with IT people advertising entry positions. I worked in one job many moons ago where I was refused a job with their IT department yet given another job in their call centre. I consequently used to end up advising the IT guys and even speaking to the programmer of 'the system' reporting bugs and giving him new ideas for features to implement to make life easier for the call centre. Despite that, the management had absolutely no intention of giving me a chance.

So, where am I going so dreadfully wrong? What is the secret or key I am missing? How brown does my tongue need to be?

I've known at least two people who are earning over £40k with no real IT qualifications having got a foot in the door and worked their way up but I'm having no luck at all here.

Am I missing key qualifications? If so what should I be looking at and through what organisation and at what cost? I did one years ago and it was trash - I ended up proof reading their material and correcting it and explaining it to them in great detail. I cancelled that and have never found another course since that I felt I could trust.

I've also had zero luck asking people who work in IT or recruit in IT. I always get the vaguest answers possible from those who are supposed to be intelligent and know the most!

Please guys, help me out here..

bluenoseam

Being blunt, there's an excess of trained, qualified IT professionals for the IT industry to recruit from, you are not trained & qualified and well, windows installation is barely experience. They also expect that script kiddies will have messed around with php & entry level programing for kicks.

The other thing i take from this is that you seem to be holding a serious attitude against the fact you aren't getting employment in the sector because you can point out errors in others work. You don't need to brown nose, you need to compete against the people they can recruit from - which you can't do as you don't have the qualifications of those being production lined out from universities.

TrickyWicky

So why do they advertise entry level positions as "No experience required" ?

I've applied for so many of these and then you either don't hear anything or hear that they took someone with a degree and 5 years experience. It's really frustrating!

As for entry level php.. yes I see what you're saying however I also do win32 apps and at one point was a webmaster for a well known socket set component library although I don't put that on the CV..

purplepardalis

For those positions it's not necessarily the IT knowledge they're looking for. They want good customer service skills, outgoing, friendly, well spoken and organised

RobTang

I think you need to be more specific, IT Support and Software developement are completely different jobs, all the skills you mention are developement, you are probably better off applying for junior development roles.

I wouldn't take a portfolio of work into a interview for a support role either, the fit is wrong; id assume you'd want to more to that kind of work rather then support work.

Also Windows and networking are very differnt in a corporate enviroment then in a home and small business enviroment, the experience ins't quite a compatiable as you think.

even speaking to the programmer of 'the system' reporting bugs and giving him new ideas for features to implement to make life easier for the call centre. Despite that, the management had absolutely no intention of giving me a chance.

Bug reports and feature requests is just want all end users do, it doesn't mean they can program.
They also might have been ablke to give you a chance, jobs require heat count and budget behind them, plus they would of have to replace whatever you were currently doing and im guessing the roles would under different line management a little political grease.
Not just "Well hes smart lets give him a go over there".

TrickyWicky wrote: »

As for entry level php.. yes I see what you're saying however I also do win32 apps and at one point was a webmaster for a well known socket set component library although I don't put that on the CV..

If you were going for a development role this is the kind of thing i'd really like to know about.

ktothema

When I was applying years ago for roles in IT (before I decided I'd rather do something else) I found that "no experience necessary" is not the same as "no qualifications required". A lot of places like people with degrees for entry level positions as it showed they had the ability to learn fast and to a high standard. According to me now-ex hubbie, this is still how they recruit at his place of work.

Sorry there's no advice here from me.

bluenoseam

TrickyWicky wrote: »

So why do they advertise entry level positions as "No experience required" ?

I've applied for so many of these and then you either don't hear anything or hear that they took someone with a degree and 5 years experience. It's really frustrating!

As for entry level php.. yes I see what you're saying however I also do win32 apps and at one point was a webmaster for a well known socket set component library although I don't put that on the CV..

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment, they state "no experience required" however that doesn't mean we will only hire people with no experience. If you were faced with a guy with an arms length of qualifications or someone without those - which would you hire, truth is most will hire the qualifications.

Googlewhacker

bluenoseam wrote: »

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment, they state "no experience required" however that doesn't mean we will only hire people with no experience. If you were faced with a guy with an arms length of qualifications or someone without those - which would you hire, truth is most will hire the qualifications.

Actually you'd probably look for the happy medium because if someone is so overly qualified then chances are they will carry on looking for jobs to move on that are higher up the ladder whereas as someone that has some experience is more likely to stay for a longer period of time.

paddyrg

If you really want support roles, try and get some formal networking/whatever qualifications. Do you know all 7 layers of your TCP/IP stack? Do you know why this is important to know? Do you know your DNS from your DHCP? If an open network had a cookie-based token authentication which authenticates on the first time the browser is fired up, why would it always fail for an https link as the first link?

For a systems support role, it is incredibly useful to know and be able to discuss this kind of thing at interview. Systems support people will never write a line of compilable code (maybe an odd batch file!).

However if you're going for a development role, SHOUT about your Win32 library development!

cainkapow

The only advice i can give is to follow the path I have done. Have a look at your local college and see if they have Access courses which will give you a kick start into university. I have finished it this year and start my ICT Degree in september. Something i should have done many years ago.

However, my aim is to become an ICT Teacher. If you were to do the same and get into teaching, student loans etc get wiped off after 6 years of teaching in the UK but only for certain subjects (Maths, Sciences, English and ICT).

Hope this helps a little bit

cherrub

To be honest, even reading your posts would put me off recruiting you. You come across as an over confident script kiddie who has played with PCs, done a bit of HTML, and poked about a noddy SQL database. This is the last sort of person I want anywhere near a production system.

Nor do I need you to tell me everything that is wrong with said system. Believe it or not, I will know what's wrong with it, I also know why it's like that and the reasons it hasn't been fixed (never criticise someone else's system until you fully understand the history behind it).

Hopefully, the above isn't true at all, but if that is how you are coming across to recruiters it will explain why you are having no luck.

When I recruit I either want some who does have relelvant experience and 'knows it all' (this will never actually happen in IT but I would like them to know most of it!) or someone who fully admits they have no experience in corporate IT but wants to learn.

For an entry level position I want someone who is reliable and can show me an apptitude to learn how and why our systems are built and how to support them.

If you're not getting interviews you need to look at your CV. Show from your job history that you are reliable and hard working even in mundane jobs, and that your IT 'hobbies' show that you will have the correct apptitude to work in the corporate environment.

IT help desk jobs in large companies are usually the best starting point, in virtually every company I've worked for there have been opportunites to move on into other areas of IT from the helpdesk. It drives the helpdesk managers mad, but it does mean that talented individuals get that first step on the ladder.

Bottom line, show a bit of humility and apptitude and hopefully you will get started.