water temp

Fallan

I live in sheltered accomodation. We are classed as 'self supporting' I pay all my bills including electricity which heats my water in the boiler within my property. The landlord has had temperature control valves fitted to everyones taps and said it is 'law' and they must be set at 43degrees. This is not hot enough to wash dishes or much else.
Does the landlord have the right to do this even though he does not pay for the 'hot' water???

squeaky

Hi

We have a board dedicated to housing and the regulars there would be better placed to answer your query so I'll move the post across for you.

Good luck

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thegirlintheattic

I would guess that this is for safety (scolds/burns) but I would think that tempreture would be too low to eliminate bacteria - it in fact puts the tempreture in the optimum range for legionaire's disease.

Can you contact your key worker or failing that someone at your council's environmental health department to check this?

Stompa

I wonder if this might be applicable?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/lacs/79-5.htm

G_M

Stompa wrote: »

I wonder if this might be applicable?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/lacs/79-5.htm

Excellent link. Relevant bits?

13. Arisk assessment should be carried out to identify potential scalding risks from hot water temperatures and to assess the vulnerability of all those who have access to bathing and washing facilities. Questions to be asked may include:

• Can the person using the care service get in/out, sit up and/or wash themselves unaided?
• Is the person using the care service sensitivity to temperature impaired?
• Is the person using the care service mental state such that they can recognise a bath that is too hot?
• Is the person using the care service capable of summoning assistance if needed?
• Will any lifting or other aids limit the patient's mobility in the bath?
• Is the person using the care service liable to try and run a bath/add water when unattended? (This is a particular issue for confused service users and those with dementia)

15. Where the risk assessment warrants it, engineering controls should be provided that ensure either:

• Water is delivered to the bath/shower outlet at no more than 44oC; or
• Water is prevented from being discharged at >44oC from taps, which may be accessible to vulnerable people using care services, especially in areas where there is the potential for whole body immersion.

Thus I would quote the regulation to the landlord, ask for a 'risk assessment', then, once you've shown you are not vulnerable and the 'risk assessment does NOT warrant it' ask for the temp to be increased.

Owain_Moneysaver

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

I would guess that this is for safety (scolds/burns) but I would think that tempreture would be too low to eliminate bacteria - it in fact puts the tempreture in the optimum range for legionaire's disease.

Legionnella is not a problem as the water is heated and stored at the same temperature as before, it is just blended with cold in the mixing valve below the sink/back so the outlet temperature is reduced.

While this is very sensible for baths, for the kitchen sink it is less useful, and may encourage the use of kettles for washing up which might actually be more hazardous.

Notmyrealname

Fallan wrote: »

I live in sheltered accomodation. We are classed as 'self supporting' I pay all my bills including electricity which heats my water in the boiler within my property. The landlord has had temperature control valves fitted to everyones taps and said it is 'law' and they must be set at 43degrees. This is not hot enough to wash dishes or much else.
Does the landlord have the right to do this even though he does not pay for the 'hot' water???

At 48C, exposure for 10 minutes causes third degree burns. 43C is not far from 48C and perfectly hot enough to wash dishes, do laundry and have a bath/shower.

Whilst it may not be law, the LL has a duty of care especially in sheltered accommodation where there are vulnerable people who may not be as aware as you when the water is too hot.

Gromitt

At work the kitchen and toilet hot water taps are fixed @ 37 degrees (100F). With a touch of soap, it seems fine for the mugs and dishes, and about perfect for washing your hands.

The idea temperature for washing dishes is normally stated as being 47C (117F), but this can cause third degree burns, as stated already and so isn't used very often in work places, care homes and other property where the land lord has a 'duty of care' over the residents.

How you checked the actual temperature of the water? Its possible the thermostat could be faulty and delivering cooler water than what its set at.

I don't know what you mean by "or much else", but the shower is set @ 100F and no one has ever altered it.

Fallan

Thank you all very much for the helpful replies. When I said sheltered housing, it is, but, it is for the active elderly and or disabled. We all live in our own flat or bungalow, look after ourselves, cook, pay our own bills and come and go as we wish. Many people have been living here since 'sheltered' had a different meaning. When the word sheltered is heard these day it is thought the people there are incapable or on 'care packages, need constant supervision or are mentally challenged. This is not that type of place but, I think the private landlords are trying to make it one ( there is a lot of money to be made via care packages). We have a scheme manager (8am to 4 pm) who runs things and is there for emergencies. That is where it ends. Only 3 people need carers for a few hours a day and that is due to age. My life is not much different to when I worked and paid a mortgage. now, I am retired and pay rent (which DOES NOT include ANY household utilities, I pay those myself.
If any of you had a knock on the door and was told they needed to restrict your hot water temperature.......I wonder!!!!

Gromitt

The way I see it is as follows:

If I was in a house that I had bought or was paying a mortgage on, then I'd tell them to sling their hook as I'll decide what I do and do not need.

However, if I was in rental accomodation, then its a completely different situation. Its their house, and, within the terms of your rental agreement, they may decide to install equipment that you are not authorised to interfere with. If you don't like the restrictions, you are free to move elsewhere which does not have such restrictions.

propertyman

Gromitt wrote: »

The way I see it is as follows: .

But grommit it is neither rented or owned, it is sheltered accommodation over which the landlord or manager has legal obligation to manage the risk.