Payment taken twice while using debit card

dellaford123

Hi. I was looking for some advice, i went for a meal yesterday and paid by debit card. The waitress tried once but for some reason the card machine wouldn't work and declined my card, so she tried again and it worked fine. I went home and checked my account and noticed that more money had gone from it then it should have, so i contacted my bank and they confirmed the resturant had taken the payment twice, i was given 2 authorisation codes to give to the company to prove they had taken 2 payments, so i rang them and was told that i had to bring all my bank statements and receipts to prove it. I then contacted head office to see if they could do anything and they told me that they could see the transactions on their records but one was showing £0 and void and one was showing the payment i made, so really they didn't have my money. I contacted my bank to ask and they said that even though the one payment was showing up void, it had actually been authorised at some point and they were holding my money and i wouldn't get it back until the transaction was cancelled, so back on the phone to the resturant and explained what my bank said and i they told me that the bank were lying and they had my money and it has been happening to thousands of people and it is just a way of banks making a profit. So either way both sides are saying they don't have my money and i just have to wait for 5- 10 days to see if the money appears back in my account before anything can be done. Is this right that either company can just hold my money without my consent, and i should have to be short of money now until either one deides to release the money!!

DreamerV

I would have thought the more common thing to happen is that the first payment didn't go through properly but still shows as taken off your available balance (just in case), and then the second payment went through properly meaning that your available balance shows that the amount has been twice debited. I would think if that was the issue, it would sort itself within a day or two.

If the payment has been taken twice, and the bank say the restaurant have to cancel the transaction, just tell them to cancel the transaction that they think is 0. If they think it is 0, they won't see the harm in cancelling it.

dellaford123

DreamerV wrote: »

I would have thought the more common thing to happen is that the first payment didn't go through properly but still shows as taken off your available balance (just in case), and then the second payment went through properly meaning that your available balance shows that the amount has been twice debited. I would think if that was the issue, it would sort itself within a day or two.

If the payment has been taken twice, and the bank say the restaurant have to cancel the transaction, just tell them to cancel the transaction that they think is 0. If they think it is 0, they won't see the harm in cancelling it.

Yep the first time the girl tried to take the payment the card machine took a long time to work so she pressed the enter button 3 or 4 times and eventually it came up as declined. My bank told me to ask the company to cancel the transaction which i have done but they are saying that the bank are lying to me about this and they are actually holding the money as a scam then to make profits and they have done everything their side and i just have to wait for the money to show up. Hopefully after a few days the money will turn up in my account but i can't see how it is fair that either side can hold the money for this long.

arcon5

Sounds like the first payment is what is known as a 'pre-auth'. Basically this is where the payment is authorised and effectively ring fenced until the payment is then 'requested'. Usually a payment is taken in real-time so you don't see this, just a debit. But if the terminal crashed between then they are correct they don't have the money.

A pre-auth will usually be cleared automatically by the bank if not requested within so many days.

Unless you can actually see 2x charges to your bank account............. which i'd be surprised if it showed so quickly on your statement

arcon5

dellaford123 wrote: »

Yep the first time the girl tried to take the payment the card machine took a long time to work so she pressed the enter button 3 or 4 times and eventually it came up as declined. My bank told me to ask the company to cancel the transaction which i have done but they are saying that the bank are lying to me about this and they are actually holding the money as a scam then to make profits and they have done everything their side and i just have to wait for the money to show up. Hopefully after a few days the money will turn up in my account but i can't see how it is fair that either side can hold the money for this long.

Well retailers don't receive the money from card payments straight away. In fact the settlement time is in general about 3 days. So not sure how this is a scam.

dellaford123

arcon5 wrote: »

Sounds like the first payment is what is known as a 'pre-auth'. Basically this is where the payment is authorised and effectively ring fenced until the payment is then 'requested'. Usually a payment is taken in real-time so you don't see this, just a debit. But if the terminal crashed between then they are correct they don't have the money.

A pre-auth will usually be cleared automatically by the bank if not requested within so many days.

Unless you can actually see 2x charges to your bank account............. which i'd be surprised if it showed so quickly on your statement

I've just checked my account online and since earlier on this afternoon all the transactions from yesterday have shown up on my statement, only one from the restaurant but still £45 missing which is what my bill come to. I have been told the money could appear in my account anything from 5 - 10 days

dellaford123

arcon5 wrote: »

Well retailers don't receive the money from card payments straight away. In fact the settlement time is in general about 3 days. So not sure how this is a scam.

Thats what i couldn't understand, why would the company say my bank are doing it as a scam to make profits, out of all the millions they make, why would they take my £45 lol I suppose i will just have to wait and see if it turns up

arcon5

dellaford123 wrote: »

I've just checked my account online and since earlier on this afternoon all the transactions from yesterday have shown up on my statement, only one from the restaurant but still £45 missing which is what my bill come to. I have been told the money could appear in my account anything from 5 - 10 days

Is it reflecting the 'available balance' only?

It certainly sounds like a 'pre-auth' transaction. They can be a pain in the !!!!, but it will be released.

dellaford123 wrote: »

Thats what i couldn't understand, why would the company say my bank are doing it as a scam to make profits, out of all the millions they make, why would they take my £45 lol

If the bank wanted the £45, i'm sure they'd find a way of taking it without having to return it a few days later.

laurachan

Can you not go just go to the restaurant with your bank statement then? I work in a shop and it happens loads when the card machine declines payment so we have to try it again. Only a few times have people come back with their bank statement and actually been charged twice and so we just refund them for one of the transactions. I'm sure if you go in they'll be willing to do this, providing you bring your receipt and bank statement.

Forwandert

laurachan wrote: »

Can you not go just go to the restaurant with your bank statement then? I work in a shop and it happens loads when the card machine declines payment so we have to try it again. Only a few times have people come back with their bank statement and actually been charged twice and so we just refund them for one of the transactions. I'm sure if you go in they'll be willing to do this, providing you bring your receipt and bank statement.

If you are refunding them chances are they are getting double back. Once from the refund and again when the ghost payment is returned several days later. They do sometimes show on online banking etc this is what customers usually bring in but on the store side they aren't actual payments, they always clear without refunding.

Evilm

dellaford123 wrote: »

Thats what i couldn't understand, why would the company say my bank are doing it as a scam to make profits, out of all the millions they make, why would they take my £45 lol I suppose i will just have to wait and see if it turns up

You have to remember that its possible this person isn't trained to deal with this stuff and might think of it as a scam even though its usual in this situation. Some people do speak out of the company line without thinking.

If they've had people complain about it before it might be they are used to pushing the anger towards the bank/card company to get it off them.

A lot of people don't know how this stuff works.