Help with a tripping circuit!

Roaming

Hello Fluffpot et al.

I've attached the image of the fusebox(?) - hopefully its accessible.

fluffpot

Cool - it looks like there are 3 circuits on the RCD and 3 not? Is this right?
Which one(s) did he move to the RCD?

You have an older style Crabtree board with type 1 mcb's. I'm not sure if the newer rcbo's will fit these boards (I don't do Crabtree much). Might be worth a call tomorrow to technical to ask. The are part of Electrium - call the main no and ask for Crabtree technical 01543 455000

Ooo - just stumbled on this on fleabay - it looks like you can get rcbo's (aka rccb) to fit but they need a double space and not sure if you can buy them new..
http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/160736944574?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla

lifes-too-short

Hi Roaming, as fluffpot says possible borrowed neutral however it could also be a neutral - earth fault (was it a brand new circuit that was ran in or an addition to an existing circuit?

From your pic it looks like you have 1 ring circuit? can you confirm? if yes then I would say a a N-E fault possibly at a socket metal back box.

Any spark worth there weight in gold would carry out tests prior installaing / altering that circuit.

As Fluffpot says 17th edition regs are dual rcd or RCBO's on all circuits (my prefrence).

The stumbling point for me would be liability! Yes the spark should have tested the circuit as good practice and advised you of an issue before installation however if a mechanic was to replace brake pads and then said well your discs need replaced too then would you pay him or say I am not satasfied (i know its not a good comparison but all i could think of)? Its a hard one and something that you could work out with each other and come t

Inexperince may have played its part here on the sparks side and I am sure he will not do it again.

Ok just read post again, I scan too fast!! How many lighting circuits do you have?

Roaming

Hi Lifes-too-short,

I'm not complaining that he said we need a new RCD, I'm confused how he is conveying us this information.

In the quote and statement of works which was agreed upon they have quoted - Add New RCD to existing fuse board. They haven't added anything, and are now telling me that the problem is with the RCD which needs replacing when in fact, they had advised on the first visit that we would need a new one and that it would be the cheaper and better thing to do and we went with that. So, what are they really saying to me? Does that make any sense? We are being very reasonable and paying them extra because they hadn't realised how much time making chasings in the walls would take so its not like we would have failed to do the same if we were advised of problems as they occurred - if they fell outside the contract agreed upon.

I'm afraid I cannot confirm if it is one ring circuit. I have asked for copy of the test results tomorrow morning. ( When I asked for it, I was told that I would only be issued this on completion of the whole job and once full payment had been made and that it had currently gone off for certification). Luckily, I knew he had taken a copy so I've asked for that.

This lighting circuit was already there. Just not on the RCD. So, all he did (as far as I understand) was move the old circuit on to the RCD and when it started tripping the RCD, he moved back to its old configuration. (Forgive me if I sound like I know nothing and am talking gibberish, I should since I did go to uni for engineering, but its been a while and I have baby brain syndrome!)

fluffpot

oh dear - I'm 99% sure that it won't be a faulty rcd. But if he wants to fit one (not even sure they are still available as the board is quite old) to determine this, then let him go ahead - just make sure he doesn't charge you for it!

I'm guessing that he moved the circuit labelled 'up light' from the non RCD to the RCD side of the board? If this is so, then again 99% sure that the prob will be a borrowed Neutral. Sorry to bamboozle you with so much techie stuff - post up the certs when you have them.

He can't possibly issue your final certs at the moment as there is still a fault!

zax47

fluffpot wrote: »

oh dear - I'm 99% sure that it won't be a faulty rcd. But if he wants to fit one (not even sure they are still available as the board is quite old) to determine this, then let him go ahead - just make sure he doesn't charge you for it!

I'm guessing that he moved the circuit labelled 'up light' from the non RCD to the RCD side of the board? If this is so, then again 99% sure that the prob will be a borrowed Neutral. Sorry to bamboozle you with so much techie stuff - post up the certs when you have them.

He can't possibly issue your final certs at the moment as there is still a fault!

Fluff, I'd go as far as to bet a testicle on it being a borrowed neutral! We see this all too regularly and it always shows itself when the lighting circuit gets RCD'd.

fluffpot

Sadly, I don't have any testicles to bet and I'm not offering up an alternative...;)

Roaming

Hello all you lovely helpful people!!!

I have good news to share! The problem has been fixed!

Armed with your helpful advice and tips, and the messup they made by mentioning adding a new RCD on the quote and then not doing that (they had forgotten they even put it on there!) I spoke to them about what the problems could be and that there excuses weren't really going down too well professionally. The main contractor was on the phone to the electrician immediately and then the electrician was down here, they traced the problem and yes.. it seem it was a case of 'borrowed neutral'.

The electrician is 23! He has been working for 6 years so not sure why he didn't think of this before but at the end of the day, they have solved my problem and got the lights working properly so I am not going to complain any more. Well, I will, because I think if I hadn't caught them out and gotten this advice to confront them with, I would be left with having to get someone in to sort out the problem and more expenses.

However, as I'm pregnant and don't need the stress at this point, I am going to be a happy lady today and forget we had a problem thanks to you lot on here!

lifes-too-short

Hi Roaming, I am so glad you got this sorted out!! Sounds like the sparky was out of his depth, possibly just a socket sparky (i know a few of them) At least the contractor came thru in the end.

Good luck with the new arrival.

Take care

L-T-S

zax47

Phew, testicle safe! Probably see this borrowed neutral issue once a week or more - surprised this guy apparently hadn't!