I work extra hours but don't accrue holidays

Moneymash

Hi,

Hope someone can help. I work in the healthcare industry. My contract is for 36 hours a week, made up of three, twelve hour night shifts. However my company is very short staffed, has a high staff turnover and has to cover sickness and annual leave. Therefore I regularly work extra shifts.

These shifts are classed as and called 'extras' becuase they are not paid at an overtime rate just the same flat rate as my contracutal hours.

The thing is my company also has bank staff who accrue annual leave the more shifts they do. However, this is not the case for permament staff. We don't get an overtime rate, or accrue holiday.

In a way it wouldn't be to the advantage of my company if the permanent staff accrued holiday ( for the extra shifts) only to have to take it on top of their normal holiday entitlement as the company would be in the position to have to cover these shifts as well. However that shouldn't mean we are not entitled to it, personally I would rather have the money than the holidays.

A colleague of mine approached our manager about us not accruing holiday for all these 'extras' (extra shifts) we are doing and he said it is not company policy.

However our company is part of a larger company ( a holdings company that has our head office inc payroll, HR etc) and my colleague knows for a fact that a friend of hers who works for another regional company that has the same holding company (therefore same payroll and HR etc) do accrue holidays.

Does anyone know how I can get my accrued holidays and or pay for all the extra shifts I have worked for the last two years and this current year, if this is even possible?

Savvy_Sue

You're unlikely to get it backdated - if you do, it will be with the help of the union (see below).

If you know it's different in other parts of the organisation, then you could try raising a grievance. However I'd join the union first. I'm assuming you're not in the union, because if you are, that would be the natural first step, see what they say.

And I wouldn't want to try this on my own.

BTW, our company does the same: bank staff accrue holidays on all their hours worked, regular staff only on the hours they are contracted to work. It's perfectly legal.

Actually, if this is happening really regularly, it could be worth asking for an increase in hours. Then you would get the extra holidays.

ohreally

Perhaps the answer is to only work extra shifts through the bank - many nurses do this, some through choice, others its forced on them at a different rate of pay.

If you know the policy for bank staff is to accrue a/l then register but do so quietly. If this isn't fruitful stop working extra shifts (call it what you will, its overtime by another name) until they offer appropriate enhancements -finish you shift and walk out the door.

anamenottaken

Moneymash wrote: »

Hi,

Hope someone can help. I work in the healthcare industry. My contract is for 36 hours a week, made up of three, twelve hour night shifts. However my company is very short staffed, has a high staff turnover and has to cover sickness and annual leave. Therefore I regularly work extra shifts.

These shifts are classed as and called 'extras' becuase they are not paid at an overtime rate just the same flat rate as my contracutal hours.

The thing is my company also has bank staff who accrue annual leave the more shifts they do. However, this is not the case for permament staff. We don't get an overtime rate, or accrue holiday.

In a way it wouldn't be to the advantage of my company if the permanent staff accrued holiday ( for the extra shifts) only to have to take it on top of their normal holiday entitlement as the company would be in the position to have to cover these shifts as well. However that shouldn't mean we are not entitled to it, personally I would rather have the money than the holidays.

A colleague of mine approached our manager about us not accruing holiday for all these 'extras' (extra shifts) we are doing and he said it is not company policy.

However our company is part of a larger company ( a holdings company that has our head office inc payroll, HR etc) and my colleague knows for a fact that a friend of hers who works for another regional company that has the same holding company (therefore same payroll and HR etc) do accrue holidays.

Does anyone know how I can get my accrued holidays and or pay for all the extra shifts I have worked for the last two years and this current year, if this is even possible?

I would suggest that 36 hours a week is a full-time job and that your holiday entitlement is likely to be fairly related to that. Your extra shifts are simply overtime.

If the people in the other sister company accrue holidays, is this because they are not contracted for full-time working?

Timalay

I don't think you can, because I work as a school cleaner. I work an extra hour a week to my normal contracted hours, and they won't add it on to my contract for that reason (there are other reasons as well).

Moneymash

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the advice so far.

SavvySue,
Yes I did think there would be little possibility of getting it backdated as my company has a policy of setting a limit on any holidays not taken, being carried forward into the next year.

A colleague and I are considering tackling the company on this issue, but you are right it would be difficult and we would prefer some help. However, I had a previous issue at work and contacted unison and they said I couldn't join to resovle an existing problem. Any issues they would help me with would have to have arisen after my joining date.

36 hours is a full-time week for me and what my holidays are currently based on. Although I have signed that European working directive saying I agree I may exceed my hours over 48 the company won't contractually let us increase our hours over 36.

Ohreally,
I can work bank but not for my company but other regional companies in the area, which I have thought of just so that I can acrrue holidays! However, my own company is a 10 minute walk from my house, the other sites would require me to get public transport and as it would be the same flat rate in the short-term I would lose out, except for the accrued holiday.

I would dearly love to only work the 36 hours. However, I am trying to pay off debts, lower my monthly outgoings and build up a buffer of a couple of months salary just in case. I do realise my colleagues and I are being taken advantage of (especially in Healthcare you are made to feel guilty if you don't cover shifts etc) but what can you do when for now you need the money?

I know that if my colleagues and I put a stop to all these extras they would have to run with agency staff. Although, there are those of my colleagues that would do the extras anyway as some of them have IVA's to pay so I couldn't rely on them to stick together and stand firm.

I think I need to find a better company to be employed by!

Russe11

if your working over time for flat rates then you are usually earning less per hour compared to your standard hours due to the tax thresholds. Why people work for flat rates over contracted hours is a bit strange.

with regard to holiday accrument if you are contracted to set hours then your holiday entitlement is whats in your contract. This could be equal to or more than the legal minimum.

Those on zero hours contracts will accrue holiday entitlement for all the hours they work, or no holiday entitlement if they work zero hours.

Savvy_Sue

Moneymash wrote: »

However, I had a previous issue at work and contacted unison and they said I couldn't join to resovle an existing problem. Any issues they would help me with would have to have arisen after my joining date.

But if you'd joined then ...

Or if you joined now, and gritted your teeth for 3 months, although the issue would not be new, you raising it with the union would be, and I think they'd be willing to help.

Moneymash

Russe11, have I got this right, what you are saying is the more I work, the lower my hourly rate as my personal tax allowance is used up by my monthly contracted hours. Any so called extras are at the same flat rate as my contractual hours but are all taxed at 20% I earn less for these extra shifts than my normal contractual hours.

I get that but I need to pay off debts, reduce monthly outgoings and build a buffer. If I did bank extra shifts elsewhere I would be hit further by travel expenses.

SavvySue, Yes I have thought about joining a union and then waiting for time to elpase before stating my issue. However, I would have to pay union subs, before, during and after and the outcome may not be favorable or I could just break even!

I know this sounds selfish, but I would feel like I would be fighting the issue on behalf of all my colleagues. If they felt something was in it for them they would jump on the bandwagon, but not have to go to the trouble of joining a union and paying subs, or come under the notice of my company and head office as a trouble maker. These colleagues except for one, are aware of what's happening but just accept it, but would expect to benefit if I somehow resolved the situation favourably.

Savvy_Sue

Moneymash wrote: »

SavvySue, Yes I have thought about joining a union and then waiting for time to elpase before stating my issue. However, I would have to pay union subs, before, during and after and the outcome may not be favorable or I could just break even!

I know this sounds selfish, but I would feel like I would be fighting the issue on behalf of all my colleagues. If they felt something was in it for them they would jump on the bandwagon, but not have to go to the trouble of joining a union and paying subs, or come under the notice of my company and head office as a trouble maker. These colleagues except for one, are aware of what's happening but just accept it, but would expect to benefit if I somehow resolved the situation favourably.

Well, your chances of success are probably greater if it's more than just you in the union, so why not work on all of them? Frankly, I'm surprised at anyone working in health, social care or teaching who is NOT in a union: I'd have said the likelihood of needing the union was just too great not to!

marybelle01

Moneymash wrote: »

Hi Guys,
36 hours is a full-time week for me and what my holidays are currently based on. Although I have signed that European working directive saying I agree I may exceed my hours over 48 the company won't contractually let us increase our hours over 36.

There's your answer though. 36 hours per week is a full-time week. So you already receive the full holiday allowance and you aren't entitled to extra holiday above that even if you work more hours.

Moneymash wrote: »

I think I need to find a better company to be employed by!

There may be better companies to work for, but none of them will give you more than the full-time holiday entitlement for working full-time.