2nd floor flat 100% responsible for roof ?

ticktack_2

richimgd wrote: »

Hi thanks for the responses. I forgot to mention I have put an offer in and worked on negotiating a price. I have got to the point that I am very close to having an offer accepted.

In particular right now I am unsure if I would be liable for the guttering and the fascia on the roof as well as the chimney stack and all 6 chimney pots also? It seems there are 2 chimney pots per flat so ideally for the deal to go through I want to know if at least some responsibility there is shared.

Also, I have done by own research by making contact with the other 2
flats. It turns out that all 3 flats have been told they have an
alocated parking space, even though there are only 2 spaces. If true
then the description is a bit misleading and it also suggests nobody
knows who owns the 2 parking spaces and really it would be more of a
first come first park basis which is not really the same as an 'alocated
off street parking space'.

Very similar situation in my place. No one's really got any management control over anything. Run!

propertyman

budgetdiyer wrote: »

I'm an estate agent and that is frankly ridiculous. The only circumstances that might lead to lack of information such as this might be a repossessed property, otherwise the agent / vendor should find information like this out in advance. (They both want to sell the property afterall!)

As an agent i'd rather put my hard work into finding a firm buyer for the property, rather than hide / omit important details only to see the sale fall through.

I have an overview of lease details of all leasehold properties on my books.

What your saying is a bit like selling a car and not knowing what CC the engine is and what petrol it runs on...

Well you are the exception: and I congratulate you.

Check local listings or right move how many quote accurate lease length ground rent or service charge, or even have access to that info if asked? The majority of EA's have a poor understanding and/or place no value on this information.

You only have to look at MSE to see that!

And your company aside, buy a drink for the corporate EA's or look at those with a general sales career to see that this approach "getting people on the hook" is a well establish and trained tactic.

The more financial and time committed a buyer is, the more likely they compromise when there are complications.

You are not mentioning that as a number of houses sales will inevitably fail, the agent has several targets short of 100%
1: Sell houses
2: Convert "valuation's" into instructions to sell
3: generate viewings
4: Convert listings to sales
5: Converts sales to completions

Complex matters
-deter 2 the agent is an obstacle to the vendor by insisting on information as they just wants it sold.
-deter 3 buyers want it simple
so you fudge the information, exploit both and get them interested in the property.

They offer, and even if they withdraw later , the EA has met his target for 4. And as a bonus they also made referrals to solicitors and financial teams.

Now that complexity is understood, the agent is seen as having done their best and gets a second chance. It pays not to ask too many questions.

That's why it is not just as simple as selling a home, not all homes are sold therefore the system is worked, and human nature to oversimplify and focus on lifestyle is exploited to get them on the hook, rather than put them off.
.
There are still many companies where the negotiator drums up viewings but the sale and the progress is handled by specific teams " the closers" who are well trained to keep you on the hook.

kmmr

richimgd wrote: »

Hi there,

I have seen a nice looking 2nd floor flat (which is in the roof). Its had new roof put on it in 1998 and it looks like it is in great condition currently.

I think you have all the info you need here, but thought I would add that I don't think this arrangement is that strange. Our building is 5 stories, and the top floor was a roof extension and like yours was built into the roof, and so the roof was raised and adjusted.

As part of the agreement with the joint freeholders the new top floor flat took on responsibility for the roof, as they had changed it - and really it was a sort of compromise for them gaining a hugely valuable asset - ie a new flat out of it. Probably not ideal for the next owner, but it was clearly agreed in the lease, with appropriate repairing obligations. There have been no problems in dealing with this, although I know that may be because the roof hasn't need major work since it was replaced as part of the extension, so things could change.

In a similar vein, I did an extension on the basement level, and my lease now says I am responsible for the exterior of that extension.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but I don't think it's *that* unusual.

propertyman

kmmr wrote: »

As part of the agreement with the joint freeholders the new top floor flat took on responsibility for the roof, as they had changed it - and really it was a sort of compromise for them gaining a hugely valuable asset - ie a new flat out of it. Probably not ideal for the next owner, but it was clearly agreed in the lease, with appropriate repairing obligations.

As an alternative the freeholders even if they are residents sell the development right to the TFF and accept the new roof as a communal item, in return for a contribution to a reserve fund to pay for the roof or other items in the medium term.

It is always a concern if a TFF is liable under their lease for roof or drains, but lacks the will or funds to repair it, with consequences for everyone.

richimgd

Thanks for the replies everyone. Here is a bit of a belated update.

Needless to say, I had decided to walk away from this property. Even though the roof looked in good condition (it was only about 12 years old), it would seem the ongoing maintenance responsibility would be too much for me to take on my own. There were 3 chimney stacks (not 1!) with all together about 10 or 12 chimney pots, plus all the fascia board and guttering would have been all my responsibility. Because the roof is so high up and huge - and nobody else in the other flats were obliged to contribute a penny to maintenance it seemed far too much responsibility to take on my own.

Also, because I decided to contact both neighbours (flat 1 and 2) I found out that the freeholder was absent and nowhere to be found and one of the flats had spent quite a lot of time and money trying to track him down but with no success. Because of his absence, simple matters were quite expensive to resolve without him as they apparently required a solicitor.

Also going back to the roof responsibility I was advised by one of the neighbours and also my solicitor that I might not have been able to get a mortgage anyway because of the liability – at least not the amount of money I was originally expecting to be able to get.

So the conclusion is I am glad I spent the time thinking it through and asking for the relevant advice. Thanks everyone. I will be asking more questions as I continue my search for my first property.

hazyjo

Thanks for the update. It's so hard, isn't it. Hope you have better luck with the next one. Let us know when you find somewhere

Jx

richimgd

budgetdiyer wrote: »

I'm an estate agent and that is frankly ridiculous. The only circumstances that might lead to lack of information such as this might be a repossessed property, otherwise the agent / vendor should find information like this out in advance. (They both want to sell the property afterall!)

As an agent i'd rather put my hard work into finding a firm buyer for the property, rather than hide / omit important details only to see the sale fall through.

I have an overview of lease details of all leasehold properties on my books.

What your saying is a bit like selling a car and not knowing what CC the engine is and what petrol it runs on...

This is an interesting argument because I think the exact same thing is happening again with me on a different flat. I was going to write it in this thread but then realised I would be best starting another. Here it is in case you have anything to add: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3973799