help when starting a new job

Sambucus_Nigra

Ainsley1 wrote: »

start your job first so that you have employment protection.

Hi Ainsley - what employment protection do you mean here?

DCFC79

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

Hi Ainsley - what employment protection do you mean here?

Im also interested in what this employment protection is

Ainsley1

Perhaps 'employment protection' is possibly a bit misleading, I was not referring to anything specifically. However, there is a lot of protection for employees these days and what I was alluding to was that if the terms of the accepted employment contract offer were not going to be met (e.g. car required to be provided and applicant advised that it was not possible to meet that contractual condition prior to taking up the position) then it would seem likely that it might be possible for the prospective employer to withdraw more easily prior to employment commencing. I must point out that Employment and Contract Law would probably apply and the employer might have remedies if it meant the prospective employee could not fulfil the contract. Once in employment there are all sorts of difficulties for an employer to then sack someone and they might be more likely to help out especially if the applicant has done their best to get the car on the road.

I am not sure if the following applies with employment law but in contract law there is such a thing as knowingly (and possibly deliberately) breaking a contract - I forget the legal name.

I am not legally qualified to comment further and it is a very complex area of law with many case histories to take into account but it might be worth reading http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_10027521 for a starter regarding employment and contract breaches for anyone who need to no more from an authoritative source or contact their trade union (if a member).

Lets hope non of this is a factor for the OP and that a solution to the position can be found, roadworthy, insured and taxed car available for business use!

wantsajob

moneypuddle wrote: »

Can't you borrow money from a family member, even if just to tide you over until you get your first months pay?

If everyone could do this, Wonga.com and their 4000% APR would be out of business.

Also, worth considering if paying insurance monthly, it is usually considered a loan and a credit check is ran.

Sambucus_Nigra

Ainsley1 wrote: »

Perhaps 'employment protection' is possibly a bit misleading, I was not referring to anything specifically. However, there is a lot of protection for employees these days and what I was alluding to was that if the terms of the accepted employment contract offer were not going to be met (e.g. car required to be provided and applicant advised that it was not possible to meet that contractual condition prior to taking up the position) then it would seem likely that it might be possible for the prospective employer to withdraw more easily prior to employment commencing. I must point out that Employment and Contract Law would probably apply and the employer might have remedies if it meant the prospective employee could not fulfil the contract. Once in employment there are all sorts of difficulties for an employer to then sack someone and they might be more likely to help out especially if the applicant has done their best to get the car on the road.

I am not sure if the following applies with employment law but in contract law there is such a thing as knowingly (and possibly deliberately) breaking a contract - I forget the legal name.

I am not legally qualified to comment further and it is a very complex area of law with many case histories to take into account but it might be worth reading http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_10027521 for a starter regarding employment and contract breaches for anyone who need to no more from an authoritative source or contact their trade union (if a member).

Lets hope non of this is a factor for the OP and that a solution to the position can be found, roadworthy, insured and taxed car available for business use!

Thanks for your insights but you really should put a disclaimer that this is your opinion that they will be protected - rather than the truth which is that they have no protection at all; can be fired with no reason within the first 2 years [except for discrimination and whistle-blowing] and I would expect if someone can't afford to run a car then they probably can't afford to pay union subs.

If the OP has said they have a car and they have landed the job then they tell the employer they DO have a car, but just can't afford to run it so it's not insured or taxed - then aren't they breaking the terms of the contract first?

I've highlighted your comment in red about there being all sorts of difficulties for an employer who sacks someone. This is a case in point. There may well be difficulties if an employer sacks someone, without due course, if it's not discrimination or in a few other instances; but on the whole, there are no difficulties to employers who sack someone. Particularly in light of the new law that came in at the start of this month. So please, if you don't know something, don't give the OP hope that there will be difficulties if she can't afford to tax or insure her car; it just makes it harder to unpick things when people give advice like that which just isn't true.

dizzyrascal

I don't know about anyone else but alarm bells were ringing for me when the op said they may have to transport patients out shopping.
You will need a higher level of insurance cover to do this. I would have thought that you would need to produce a certificate to prove this to your employer but your employer has responsibilities with regard to the safety of the patients too.
It seems a bit of a casual arrangement at the moment. What training is being given? Do you need to have special seats or permission for special parking etc?

Ainsley1

Sambuca, thanks for expanding on and correcting my post. [I take it your post content is your opinion too, however correct or incorrect?] It is allways a danger with a forum that all sorts of people will post and comment and the veracity should not be assumed but always checked and confirmed. Some posters do add that they are professionals in the field under discussion but even so can still be just opinion. You only need to look at the conflicting number of comments posted (in general not specifically this thread). It was for this reason that I gave a link to an authoritative website after you rightly queried my post.

It would have been useful if you could have expended upon the recent legislation you mention as possibly many are unaware. As far as I know and IMHO that affects only the increase in the qualifying period of service for
Unfair Dismissal claims from 1 year to 2 years but the status quo is maintained for Wrongful Dismissal (see a leading international Law forms website http://www.osborneclarke.com/publications/services/employment-and-benefits/alert/2012/budget-2012.aspx)

However it remains true that an employee has greater protection than a prospective employee such as with Unfair Dismissal and Wrongful Dismissal. See the links to the following web sites:
http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/rights-of-workers/dismissal/notice-and-reasons-for-dismissal.html
http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/rights-of-workers/dismissal/unfair-dismissal.shtml.

I would just reiterate: pre work is contract law. During work applicable are contract AND employment law; and these latter two are intertwined with much case history and the individual employment organisation as well as UK legal and European systems all come into play!.

Unless I have given readers a bum steer here (?), let's terminate this particular discussion as it is a complex subject, probably of no use to the OP to discuss here, is getting off topic and if there is interest then a poster can start a thread and no doubt get lots of other input from people much better informed than me.

heretolearn_2

I'm with Sambucca on this. Should the OP not be able to sort this out in time, they have no protection against being dismissed immediately for being unable to do the job, whether they tell the employer this before or after starting work/signing the contract. While in theory they would require the notice period - either that specified in the contract or the statutory one week if not - I would think that having lied in the application process about having use of the vehicle essential for the job would be gross misconduct and could lead to immediate dismissal without notice.

and whatever the circumstances, there is very little protection in employment now for the first two years, even taking contract law into account. It's extremely easy to get rid of any employee legally unless the employer is very stupid and does something obviously discriminatory/against any procedures spelled out in the contract.

OP - you really need to sort this out before you start. I would not turn up on your first day and ask the new employer to help, that's a huge gamble.

Sambucus_Nigra

Ainsley1 wrote: »

Sambuca, thanks for expanding on and correcting my post. [I take it your post content is your opinion too, however correct or incorrect?] It is allways a danger with a forum that all sorts of people will post and comment and the veracity should not be assumed but always checked and confirmed. Some posters do add that they are professionals in the field under discussion but even so can still be just opinion. You only need to look at the conflicting number of comments posted (in general not specifically this thread). It was for this reason that I gave a link to an authoritative website after you rightly queried my post.

It would have been useful if you could have expended upon the recent legislation you mention as possibly many are unaware. As far as I know and IMHO that affects only the increase in the qualifying period of service for
Unfair Dismissal claims from 1 year to 2 years but the status quo is maintained for Wrongful Dismissal (see a leading international Law forms website http://www.osborneclarke.com/publications/services/employment-and-benefits/alert/2012/budget-2012.aspx)

However it remains true that an employee has greater protection than a prospective employee such as with Unfair Dismissal and Wrongful Dismissal. See the links to the following web sites:
http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/rights-of-workers/dismissal/notice-and-reasons-for-dismissal.html
http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/rights-of-workers/dismissal/unfair-dismissal.shtml.

I would just reiterate: pre work is contract law. During work applicable are contract AND employment law; and these latter two are intertwined with much case history and the individual employment organisation as well as UK legal and European systems all come into play!.

Unless I have given readers a bum steer here (?), let's terminate this particular discussion as it is a complex subject, probably of no use to the OP to discuss here, is getting off topic and if there is interest then a poster can start a thread and no doubt get lots of other input from people much better informed than me.

I am completely bemused as to how someone who gave incorrect information on their application, and who turns up for work with no car in a job that they need a car to do - will be protected. If you could enlighten me that would be great.

Lets start from the moment the induction is done and the OP is given their first pick up to do. Over to you.

Dontknowanymore

dizzyrascal wrote: »

I don't know about anyone else but alarm bells were ringing for me when the op said they may have to transport patients out shopping.
You will need a higher level of insurance cover to do this. I would have thought that you would need to produce a certificate to prove this to your employer but your employer has responsibilities with regard to the safety of the patients too.
It seems a bit of a casual arrangement at the moment. What training is being given? Do you need to have special seats or permission for special parking etc?

No all you need is business use, I'm guessing it's support work or domicilliary care.
Some clients if you take them out will have a blue badge for parking etc.
But yes you should have to produce a valid insurance certificate.

OP, has your CRB check come back yet as that could take a while, enough time for you to get the deposit for car insurance and tax?