Thames Water sewage - is this correct?

moose1982

Hi,

About a year ago, I moved from a 1 bedroom house into a 1 bedroom flat. The house was an end of terrace type and had a small garden. The flat has 2 other flats directly above mine.

Sewage for both properties is with Thames Water. I don't believe the bills are correct though. Going on year 1st April 2011-31st March 2012 (I receieved the house bill just before moving out and the landlord paid it for me because I was leaving), I have the following bill amounts:

The house was £92.45 for a chargeable value of 123
The flat was £105.47 for a chargeable value of 144

I disagreed with the amount for the flat due to sharing guttering with two other flats above me, while accepting that I would need to pay some for things such as road and pavement sewage. I believed that the sewage amount for the flat should have been less, Thames Water did not believe this and still do not.

Am I correct, or is Thames Water?

Cardew

You are presumably talking about the Surface Water Drainage(SWD) element of the sewerage charge?

Although it it is a stupid ruling, Thames Water are correct. If it was a 50 storey block of flats they must collect 50 SWD charges. It is an Ofwat(the Regulator) ruling and covered in the Water Privatisation Act - the 'default' position is you pay SWD unless you can claim exemption; which is normally because the water from guttering etc runs into a soakaway.

As explained many times on MSE, this is not a ploy by the water companies to increase profits. It doesn't matter to them if they collect 50 x SWD charges or none. The revenue they can raise, and hence profit they make, is controlled by ofwat. If they raised no money from SWD it would be raised by increasing other charges to compensate.

moose1982

Thanks Cardew.

The SWD was £38.00 at the house and £39.39 at the flat. The wastewater was £54.55 at the house and £66.08 at the flat.

The wastewater is an odd one because they are both one bedroom properties and the back of the bill says that it is to do with the chargeable value of the home, to my (simple) eyes, this would probably be linked to size, a bit like Council Tax. The house was band B and the flat was band A.

It does seem daft to an ordinary person though, but thanks for pointing out why

Cardew

If you are not metered the water charges are based on the Rateable Value(RV) of the property.

RV was the method of raising 'local taxes' prior to April 1990. Poll Tax took over and then Council Tax.

RV was the notional rent the property could command and NOT its value and was last assessed in England in 1973 - unless property was built after 1973 and prior to 1990.

Without going into the method of assessing RV there were many factors other than size taken into account. Area, facilities, garage, Central heating etc.

It is possible to have a Band H mansion with 10 acres with a lower RV than a Band B estate semi. In 1973 the mansion was unmodernised and nobody would want to rent it with all the upkeep.

So in your case the flat has a slightly higher RV than the house.

moose1982

It's not metered, to be honest I didn't even know that waste could be metered, only supply (which is another issue I'm currently having with Southern Water, but another day...).

It does sound like a strange way of valuing a property to someone who doesn't have the knowledge, it should really be made a bit easier if I'm honest.

Thinking about it, the house was built late 70's and the flat mid 50's, but I suspect that just confuses things even more.

My head hurts

Itismehonest

I believe the waste water aspect is calculated on the amount of water used (& metered). Logical when you think about it.

Cardew

Itismehonest wrote: »

I believe the waste water aspect is calculated on the amount of water used (& metered). Logical when you think about it.

Correct!

They know the amount of water supplied and they estimate 90%(95% with some companies) of that water returns to a sewer.

moose1982

That means my bill should go down when I settle with Southern Water (supply). Essentially they said they fitted a meter last year but I got an unmetered bill for this year, so I phoned them up to ask for my metered bill and was told that they have no record of a meter at the flat. They have told me that they will look into what is going on and I will receive a call before tomorrow. I know today is a bank holiday, but if there is no call today then a letter of complaint will be winging it's way to them.

If it turns out they cannot fit a meter, then reading the Ofwat website, I should have been offered an asessed charge, not just unmetered and this will be cheaper (I'm single, living alone and the metered supply in the house was cheaper than the unmetered flat).

Therefore, as my supply will be cheaper, my wastage should also be cheaper. I think?

macman

RV has absolutely no relationship to Council Tax whatsoever. It's purely a notional historical value.

redandwhitewizard

Apologies to those living in London, but why should I pay for this infrastructure if I will not benefit from it ?

Strangely my sewerage company is Thames, whereas my water comes from South East Water. Thames seem to be pulling a fast one in that they increased costs in previous years for this and yet have just sent a leaflet saying that they are going to increase all their customers sewerage charges by £70-80 from 2014 onwards although the building will supposedly complete in 2023. This is regardless of where they live and whether they will benefit.

Instead of putting aside the profits they have been making since privatisation for this event, which they have known would need fixing from Day 1, the company are happy to make everyone pay again !?

What an absolute rip off !

Cardew

redandwhitewizard wrote: »

Apologies to those living in London, but why should I pay for this infrastructure if I will not benefit from it ?

Strangely my sewerage company is Thames, whereas my water comes from South East Water. Thames seem to be pulling a fast one in that they increased costs in previous years for this and yet have just sent a leaflet saying that they are going to increase all their customers sewerage charges by £70-80 from 2014 onwards although the building will supposedly complete in 2023. This is regardless of where they live and whether they will benefit.

Instead of putting aside the profits they have been making since privatisation for this event, which they have known would need fixing from Day 1, the company are happy to make everyone pay again !?

What an absolute rip off !

Blame Maggie!

Thank your lucky stars you don't live in the South West Water area where charges are about 3 times higher than Thames.

Much of the reason is that they have to look after huge coastal areas and it is a sparsely populated area - compared with Thames.

As for Thames Water profits, the Regulator(ofwat) determines the charges, and hence profit, they can make.