Council Tax Bill in arrears - Not our debt? It's complicated

spudgunnery

Ok this is the situation.

We live in a strange flat. It's strange because the landlady comes round every month and collects the rent. I moved in and that was the case. This mean there is no tenant agreement or anything official.

Why would that be? We don't know. all we can do is speculate. That's just how it's been.

New set of flatmates moved in around October including me. We didn't know the previous tenants and they have gone back to Aussie, NZ, South Africa etc...

When we moved in (4 bdrm) the girl who moved out said that the landlady was going to sort of the council tax (put under her name). But she either did not or filled out the form wrong. We don't know. We assumed that we would just pay the landlady or get a bill or something. Anyway maybe its our ignorance, but we never received anything. So we were thinking that maybe the landlady was paying for it or whatever. It's easier to just move on with life. We do have a money in an account to pay off this amount of money which amounts to about 600-700 quid worth of council bills.


We just got a bill for 1400 quid for council tax not paid. The mail was address 'to the Occupier'. It was from a bailiff saying they need to contact [NAME] on behalf of the council.

So there is a further 600 quid that needs to be paid. Fair enough i guess that we should pay the council tax (but it's all a bit dodgy - for the record we had all just moved to the UK so the system is new - not saying we couldn't have done more following up but just putting it out there).

We obviously don't want to pay a debt that isn't ours.

Really don't know what the landlady is all about and this tax bill under some random persons name that has doubt gone back to canada or nz or aussie

What are our rights? Any advice would be great. Hope you can understand this ramble!

RAS

We need to know a bit more please.

There are 4 of you. Is this a House in Multiple Occupancy? If so the LL pays the CT; otherwise the tenants have to pay. Are any of you students?

Have any of you notified the Council that you moved in on x date?

You are jointly and severally liable for the Council tax but students are exempt.

You are probably being being charged for unpaid CT from before you moved in.

BitterAndTwisted

What rights? The local authority has the right to insist that the occupants pay the council tax due: your responsibility is to pay it. The tax bill isn't in any random person's name: it's in no-one's name from what you have described. This bill is intended to get someone's attention. Like yours, for instance.

You only have someone else's word for the fact that the landlady would be paying this bill. If she's not willing to cover the cost you will have to pay it yourselves. There's nothing in your own names yet, but it should be. Contact the Local Authority and tell them on what date you all moved in and all of your surnames so what you do owe will be billed correctly in your own names. If they demand sight of your tenancy agreement in order to re-issue the correct bill for the correct amount you will have to discuss this with your landlady.

jjlandlord

One day perhaps people will learn.

How can people move in somewhere with people you don't know, without any documents, and pay rent in cash, then look surprised when something goes wrong?

The only positive thing here for OP is that he could decide to move out just like that and that'd be about it.

pmlindyloo

This is far from simple.

The fact that your letter was from a bailiff seems to suggest that this may be a council tax bill from a previous year.

First of all you need to answer RAS' s questions to find out who should be paying the council tax.

Whose name is on the council tax bill? You say it was addressed to the occupier but has a previous tenant's name on it?

Until you answer RAS's questions it is very difficult to know who is liable.

Personally I would contact your LL and get her 'take' on this. Also you can contact the council and ask for a breakdown and dates of the charges (I presume they are not on the bailiffs letter)

If you need help with this then you can visit your local CAB.

spudgunnery

RAS wrote: »

We need to know a bit more please.

There are 4 of you. Is this a House in Multiple Occupancy? If so the LL pays the CT; otherwise the tenants have to pay. Are any of you students?

Have any of you notified the Council that you moved in on x date?

You are jointly and severally liable for the Council tax but students are exempt.

You are probably being being charged for unpaid CT from before you moved in.

I don't know the technical terms but we are all 4 seperate people. None of us are students. All are working jobs. We have not notified the Council of our move in dates. I could give you excuses but lets stick with the facts.

We have no wish to be burdened with other peoples debt. The letter was addressed Occupier. The bailiff letter said they wished to contact a certain person. ie: they give the name. We can assume she was the last person who had registered for CT at the property.

I THINK in the past that it was stated that you have to show your name on the tenant agreement to register for the CT. From what previous tenants have told me, there hasnt ever been one. This is why I believe the LL said she would sign it. And therefore the bills would go to her house.

It gets even trickier. 2 of us are leaving the flat at the end of the month. Another is leaving in 6 weeks. Leaving 1 person left with new tenants. No one wants to screw over anyone, but we sure as heck don't want to be screwed over.

RAS

Do you rent a room in the house from the LL or do you 4 rent the whole house together?

If one of you leaves and is not replaced do you still pay one quarter of the rent or do you have to pay one third to make up the deficit?

Joint and several liability means that if you allow the other tenants to leave at the end of the month without sorting out the Council Tax, you could be in deep doo doo. The Council can chase each one of you for the WHOLE debt, not just a quarter of it.

Write to the Council, tell them that the person to whom they wrote no longer lives there. Tell them when you moved in (and when people are due to move out) Ask for the bill for the period from October to March 31. And ask for the bill from April 1 to April 31. Get those paid.

Then ask for another bill from May 1 onwards.

spudgunnery

RAS wrote: »

Do you rent a room in the house from the LL or do you 4 rent the whole house together?

If one of you leaves and is not replaced do you still pay one quarter of the rent or do you have to pay one third to make up the deficit?

Joint and several liability means that if you allow the other tenants to leave at the end of the month without sorting out the Council Tax, you could be in deep doo doo. The Council can chase each one of you for the WHOLE debt, not just a quarter of it.

Write to the Council, tell them that the person to whom they wrote no longer lives there. Tell them when you moved in (and when people are due to move out) Ask for the bill for the period from October to March 31. And ask for the bill from April 1 to April 31. Get those paid.

Then ask for another bill from May 1 onwards.

We pay the rent together. So yes we rent the whole house. The tenants leaving is not related to this by the way. What you have suggested seems like a fair way to approach this. I'll draft a letter today.

One issue might be that they will want proof of that. 2 of us took on the bills from november onwards which show our address so hopefully that will work. Otherwise if they want a tenancy agreement that maybe difficult due to the odd actions of our LL. ie: Noone to my knowledge has ever seen a tenancy agreement and the LL collects the money cash in hand.

Anyway I'll write the letter. Thanks a lot for your time and effort.

DannyboyMidlands

Ok so you pay your rent in cash and have no contract but does the landlady have any kind of bond/deposit from you guys?

What details does she have in terms of names, addresses etc?

If possible you should all move out and not pay the bill. The council are writing to "The Occupier" so obviously don't have your details. Why stick your head above the parapet if you don't have to?

Mrs_Arcanum

spudgunnery wrote: »

We pay the rent together. So yes we rent the whole house. The tenants leaving is not related to this by the way. What you have suggested seems like a fair way to approach this. I'll draft a letter today.

One issue might be that they will want proof of that. 2 of us took on the bills from november onwards which show our address so hopefully that will work. Otherwise if they want a tenancy agreement that maybe difficult due to the odd actions of our LL. ie: Noone to my knowledge has ever seen a tenancy agreement and the LL collects the money cash in hand.

Anyway I'll write the letter. Thanks a lot for your time and effort.

You should also give the LL's name & address.

From your previous posts it seems the LL is responsible for putting people in the property and so the local council could decide it is an HMO simply because the only reliable contact for the property is the LL.

dancingfairy

I am somewhat confused by yourset up. It sounds as though none of you knew each other until you moved in to the house and that if one moves out then it is not up to the remaing housemates to find a new one? With all of you moving in and out on different dates it sounds very much like a house of multiple occupancy (HMO) to me. This would mean that your landlord would be responsible for the council tax (whether she then puts the rent up to cater for it is another matter entirely).
I would write to the council and explain the living set up - ie how you all do/don't know each other, the fact that you have no choice in new housemates etc, the fact you all moved in and believe you have seperate tenancies etc and therefore you don't think you are resonsible for the council tax.
Best of Luck
df