Toys R Us - Refund issue

MJTHFC

Thanks for all your responses. Looks like there's not an awful lot for me to kick off about. Returning again today with the voucher to get my full refund.

halibut2209

Perhaps they are Arsenal fans.

DVardysShadow

arcon5 wrote: »

But the voucher was conditional. Ops order met a certain criteria for which it now qualifies for the free voucher - which was accepted by op. Now the goods are being returned/amendment to the contract op no longer qualifies for the voucher and should return it.

If the voucher was being given out to everyone, without any criteria of who receives one then i'd be inclined to agree.

That is the point I was making - Is the voucher conditional?

Scenario 1
Customer: "I will have product X at £50 under the £10 voucher offer"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and your voucher"

Scenario 2
Customer: "I will have product X at £50"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and a voucher for £10"

Scenario 3
Customer: "I will have product X at £50"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and here is your voucher for £10 which you must return if you reject the goods"

Scenario 4
Customer: "I will have product X at £50"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and here is your voucher for £10 which you must return if you reject the goods"
Customer: "I don't want the voucher"
Assistant: "The voucher is compulsory. If you bring the goods back, you are only entitled to £40"
Customer: "I don't want the voucher"
Assistant: "The voucher is compulsory. If you will not take it, I will not sell you product X"

In scenario 2 the voucher is a gift. In scenarios 1, 3 and 4 it is part of the contract.

It is far from being a given that the voucher is conditional.

unholyangel

DVardysShadow wrote: »

That is the point I was making - Is the voucher conditional?

Scenario 1
Customer: "I will have product X at £50 under the £10 voucher offer"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and your voucher"

Scenario 2
Customer: "I will have product X at £50"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and a voucher for £10"

Scenario 3
Customer: "I will have product X at £50"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and here is your voucher for £10 which you must return if you reject the goods"

Scenario 4
Customer: "I will have product X at £50"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and here is your voucher for £10 which you must return if you reject the goods"
Customer: "I don't want the voucher"
Assistant: "The voucher is compulsory. If you bring the goods back, you are only entitled to £40"
Customer: "I don't want the voucher"
Assistant: "The voucher is compulsory. If you will not take it, I will not sell you product X"

In scenario 2 the voucher is a gift. In scenarios 1, 3 and 4 it is part of the contract.

It is far from being a given that the voucher is conditional.

Probably first time i've disagreed with you but here goes.....

Rather than over complicate anything lets just ask.....was the voucher being given only to customers or were they being given to anyone? If they were only being given to customers, then it is conditional upon them being a customer (ie purchasing items and entering into a contract). Technically since the OP wants to cancel the contract, they are no longer a customer therefore no longer meet the criteria for the voucher and as such, it would have to be returned.

If they were issuing to everyone who even visited the store (regardless if they made a purchase) then obviously OP would still be entitled.


It does actually become part of the contract if they are only given to customers and whether they would refuse to sell an item if the consumer rejected the voucher is rather a moot point in this case as the OP didnt reject the voucher, they accepted the stores offer. Basic offer + acceptance = contract.

Brooker_Dave

MJTHFC wrote: »

I just don't know enough about my rights to have kicked up more of a fuss.

You don't have any rights to a refund if you decide you no longer want what they've sold you.

Brooker_Dave

wealdroam wrote: »

I'm just off to Tesco.

I bought some tins of beans earlier... buy one get one free.

I am planning on taking one of the tins back for a refund.
Obviously I will take back the one I paid for get a full refund for that, and I'll keep the one I got free.

Anyone see anything wrong with that?

Remember to eat the right one.

MJTHFC

DVardysShadow wrote: »

That is the point I was making - Is the voucher conditional?

Scenario 1
Customer: "I will have product X at £50 under the £10 voucher offer"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and your voucher"

Scenario 2
Customer: "I will have product X at £50"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and a voucher for £10"

Scenario 3
Customer: "I will have product X at £50"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and here is your voucher for £10 which you must return if you reject the goods"

Scenario 4
Customer: "I will have product X at £50"
Assistant: "Certainly. Here is product X and here is your voucher for £10 which you must return if you reject the goods"
Customer: "I don't want the voucher"
Assistant: "The voucher is compulsory. If you bring the goods back, you are only entitled to £40"
Customer: "I don't want the voucher"
Assistant: "The voucher is compulsory. If you will not take it, I will not sell you product X"

In scenario 2 the voucher is a gift. In scenarios 1, 3 and 4 it is part of the contract.

It is far from being a given that the voucher is conditional.

I have now got my refund from Toys R Us :T
Scenario 2 was the exact situation by the way.

DVardysShadow

unholyangel wrote: »

Probably first time i've disagreed with you but here goes.....

Rather than over complicate anything lets just ask.....was the voucher being given only to customers or were they being given to anyone? If they were only being given to customers, then it is conditional upon them being a customer (ie purchasing items and entering into a contract). Technically since the OP wants to cancel the contract, they are no longer a customer therefore no longer meet the criteria for the voucher and as such, it would have to be returned.

If they were issuing to everyone who even visited the store (regardless if they made a purchase) then obviously OP would still be entitled.


It does actually become part of the contract if they are only given to customers and whether they would refuse to sell an item if the consumer rejected the voucher is rather a moot point in this case as the OP didnt reject the voucher, they accepted the stores offer. Basic offer + acceptance = contract.

Probably the first time I have disagreed with you.

OP has now advised that the voucher was given effectively unsolicited. Even though it was only given to customers making the purchase, it was imposed on the customer. This is the reason for the extra scenarios. But even though it was imposed, more is required to make the voucher part of the contract.

In the way it was given, although conditional, the customer was entitled to regard the voucher as a gift, because the customer did not ask for a voucher, just for product X. If the retailer had said that they would only sell product X in bundle with a voucher and the customer had agreed, the voucher would become part of the contract.

As an aside, sometimes these vouchers say 'redemption value 0.001p'. Another whole level of difficult issues.

unholyangel

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Probably the first time I have disagreed with you.

OP has now advised that the voucher was given effectively unsolicited. Even though it was only given to customers making the purchase, it was imposed on the customer. This is the reason for the extra scenarios. But even though it was imposed, more is required to make the voucher part of the contract.

In the way it was given, although conditional, the customer was entitled to regard the voucher as a gift, because the customer did not ask for a voucher, just for product X. If the retailer had said that they would only sell product X in bundle with a voucher and the customer had agreed, the voucher would become part of the contract.

As an aside, sometimes these vouchers say 'redemption value 0.001p'. Another whole level of difficult issues.

A gift or a variation of contract? Isn't a gift usually only a gift when it is free of strings or payment of any sort? Would it not be similar to when a laptop is given as incentive to get a mobile phone contract?

MSE's own article says:

Yet if it was a free gift as part of a purchase, eg sign up for a mobile contact and get a laptop with it – that's different, you've exactly the same SadFart rights as if you'd paid for it. Most sellers are aware of this, but, if they try to fob you off, stand your ground.

To me, that indicates that if a free gift is part of a purchase, it is indeed part of the contract and as such, would have to be returned if that contract was rescinded.

Certainly would be interesting to know for definite one way or the other though!

DVardysShadow

unholyangel wrote: »

A gift or a variation of contract? Isn't a gift usually only a gift when it is free of strings or payment of any sort? Would it not be similar to when a laptop is given as incentive to get a mobile phone contract?

MSE's own article says:

Yet if it was a free gift as part of a purchase, eg sign up for a mobile contact and get a laptop with it – that's different, you've exactly the same SadFart rights as if you'd paid for it. Most sellers are aware of this, but, if they try to fob you off, stand your ground.

To me, that indicates that if a free gift is part of a purchase, it is indeed part of the contract and as such, would have to be returned if that contract was rescinded.

Certainly would be interesting to know for definite one way or the other though!

This is the reason for my scenarios, to explore whether the voucher was part of the contract. In scenario 2, the voucher is [IMO] plainly a gift, because it is 'given without reservation' and has not been bound into the contract. Forget the word 'conditional', it muddies the water. Buying product X is obviously a precondition of being given a voucher - but the precondition is [IMO] insufficient to bind the voucher into the contract if the customer only asks for product X and does not solicit the voucher.

Scenario 1 indicates that the voucher is bound into the contract by the actions of the buyer. Scenarios 3 and 4 indicate the seller taking action to bind the voucher into the contract.