Want to be fair to the public - Advice needed

interstellaflyer

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

We stayed at a Travelodge a while ago where they had an "exit via token" scheme.
Can't remember if entry was via an automatic barrier or one of those things on the ground where you can only go one way. Then you picked up a token from reception which you put in the machine at the barrier to get out.
This wouldn't cause delays on the main road, but would be a great deterent.
Depending on how abused the system was you could have a pot of tokens on the desk at reception where members can just pick one up on their way out (chances are non-members wouldn't have the guts to come in and take one) or have them behind the desk so you have to ask for one, etc. You could charge non-members £10, say, for a token. Or get the receptionist to tell them that they aren't authorised to give tokens to non-members and they'll have to wait for a manager - who might (what a shame!) take 20 minutes to be available. Bet that would cut down on the problems.

I think the sight of an automatic barrier and a sign warning of the token exit system and warning that non members would have to purchase a token at some extortionate fee would do the trick, however I'll bet these systems don't come cheap.

ashleypride

thehullram wrote: »

Our members use their car park passes and so I don't think many of them would fall foul to the ppcs,

The PPC 'business' model is to make money out of 'fines'. Once they are on your land and have 'solved' the parking issue, they still need to 'earn' money. Members will then have to be 'fined', for non issues such as not displaying valid tax disk, pass upside down, pass fallen off, pass forgotten to be displayed, car slightly touching the lines, and anything else they can dream of. The appeals will be ignored and your members threated with court.

Stephen_Leak

There is rarely ever two cars queuing to get into the marina. It only takes seconds to tap in the code and raise the barrier. They change the code number every month and authorised users get a text and/or e-mail.

It does seem the only way of stopping non-members' cars getting into the CP in the first place, rather than trying to deal with them, after they've parked and the damage has been done. Even if you torched them, it still wouldn't make the space available for a member.

What about those fold-down posts for each space? You would need 45 of them and 1800 keys, though.

How does the cost of the PPC compare to employing your own car park attendant for access control?

The PPC and self-ticketting option still leaves you open to harassment suits, as the PPC is still your agent and will still demand money unlawfully.

The deterrent self-clamping idea is relatively inexpensive, devious, and an anti-theft measure as a bonus. However, it might not work so well after the Freedom Act comes into force later this year, and people know that clamping is illegal.

HO87

Stephen_Leak wrote: »

Plan B. How does the cost of the PPC compare to employing your own car park attendant?

PPC's almost universally offer their services FOC on the basis that they keep the proceeds of any "charge" system employed. The incentive on them is, therefore, to find every excuse to issue tickets. - as set out by ashleypride.

giraffe69

Barrier Systems: Problem with queuing on to road, cost of install and administering keys etc
PPC: Problem of employing rogues and seriously aggravating members

Given you have a problem and don't know what will or won't work and don't want to shell out several £K to find it is ineffective start with some nasty sticky signs. Put them on the side driver window to avoid any problem with the law. Three advantages of this idea
1. It is cheap
2. It makes your customers feel something is being done
3. It will aggravate those who park when asked not to

Also IMO worth having some signs. They may get ignored by many but, at least they will say what is being done and can be pointed at. Will also partly meet criterion 2 above.

pseudopensioner

48 car parking spaces will not encompass a huge area., and therefore not involve a great distance to walk to the club's entrance/reception area.

Preusmably for the hours of opening of the club, there is a receptionist /admin person who checks/oversees members' validity to enter the club

A remote controlled raised bar to allow access, operated by the receptionist on production of a valid membership shouldn't be too hard to organise should it? If members are 'fitness freaks' they may appreciate the extra few yards walking to gain access as opposed to the many yards walking because the club's car park is full?

I may be over simplifying things.

peter_the_piper

Stephen_Leak wrote: »

There is rarely ever two cars queuing to get into the marina. It only takes seconds to tap in the code and raise the barrier. They change the code number every month and authorised users get a text and/or e-mail.

It does seem the only way of stopping non-members' cars getting into the CP in the first place, rather than trying to deal with them, after they've parked and the damage has been done. Even if you torched them, it still wouldn't make the space available for a member.

What about those fold-down posts for each space? You would need 45 of them and 1800 keys, though.

How does the cost of the PPC compare to employing your own car park attendant for access control?

The PPC and self-ticketting option still leaves you open to harassment suits, as the PPC is still your agent and will still demand money unlawfully.

The deterrent self-clamping idea is relatively inexpensive, devious, and an anti-theft measure as a bonus. However, it might not work so well after the Freedom Act comes into force leter this year, and people know that clamping is illegal.

I wonder if that would still apply to free to remove clamps, I have not read it that closely to check either way.

treeboa

my view on the matter would be as a member when, note i say when not if, i got a ticket i would be looking to take the legal side of you as a club paying the fine, as my membership gives me legal right to park there, i think you would not be in a position to refute responsibility of paying the costs, would not take long for your club to suddenly be short of funds because of the parasites you engaged

i would look into the legality of clamping yourselves, no fine, just a `sorry it will take us an hour or more to get the clamp released` dont make it obvious theres no fine associated with the clamping, i noticed a local car park the other day with `clamping enforcement area` on the sign, nothing else

a couple of staged clamped vehicles placed with a nice bright yellow sticker on the screen should get the message across to even the most dim, you may have to actually clamp a couple of thick people to get the message across, that means someone will have to walk and monitor the car park, and also take on the responsibility of clamping offenders with the eventual fallout of a driver returning as the clamps going on

Coupon-mad

thehullram wrote: »

As previously stated we have no where to put a barrier as we are right next to the main road. Any barrier system will cause further queues onto the main road, the council would not allow a barrier to be put in place. Our members use their car park passes and so I don't think many of them would fall foul to the ppcs, however, all they want is the issue sorting so that non memebrs are not using the private car park they pay to use.

Yes they will! :eek:

PPCs are only out to make money by fair means or foul and there are no good companies out there.

If you introduce a PPC then you may see a brief improvement with some non-members scared off.

But then how is PPC World to make their money from your car park after that? Answer = by 'farming' it.

Collecting membership numbers, targeting cars where they know the membership card is about to expire, checking for cards which have slipped down off the dash or windscreen (even shaking cars to cause this). Looking for any reason to issue a fake ticket, anything. A car with a membership displayed but a wheel over a white line. A car in a corner out of the way, not obstructing anyone but 'not in a bay'. A longer or wider car than most which overhangs a bay through no fault of the driver and causing no problems. Or, a few months in, the PPC makes an 'offer' to you that it would be a good idea if they issued their own laminated permits at their expense. Good idea? Nope. Money-making exercise for them as they can then trawl the car park for any members with the old version on display...and they can do so again and again on every anniversary of the permit scheme when they change them for a different colour and not every member knows...

Kerching!!! And ALL the fake PCNs in the end will be issued to members, you can bet on it. How do you think your members will feel then?





P.S. What about offering a 'public transport loyalty scheme' since you have said a bus runs right past?! Show their bus/train ticket 3 times and they get a free coffee or cold drink, or a 10% voucher off of something you offer? Therefore you make sales out of it?

Or only offer car park passes to Gold members, or after a certain number of visits (1800 into 48 simply doesn't go!).

ManxRed

We've heard tales of PPC's rocking cars to make the permit slip off the dash. That's what you're dealing with here.