HSBC TAKE NOTE - you've gone too far in fraud protection

chattychappy

pimento wrote: »

This is a bit worrying for me, planning a trip to New Zealand in November with only a First Direct debit and credit card to my name.

I would be worried. You should get at least a couple more! Of course, if you are travelling with someone else that has different CCs, that's a form of backup.

c_denise

koloko wrote: »

However - travelling to Colombia with my money stuck in a HSBC savings account has been utterly painful. After years of saving, I have a sum of about £7,000 cash to enjoy my honeymoon. I notified HSBC a fortnight in advance that I would be using my debit card in Colombia. We are mixing backpacking with high end luxury resorts, as a result we booked nothing before we left, relying on cash to help pay for wherever we laid our hats.


I don't think you can withdraw money from your saving account using your debit card thou.

pimento

Nope, just the old ball and chain and we just have the joint account.

Won't it look a bit odd if I suddenly start applying for credit cards?

Elvisia

This happened to me! I was in New York - a few years ago - and I had an Egg card, which when I used in the Levi store came up as being stolen! I had a complete nightmare, eventually managed to call them from my hotel at massive charges, only for them to say it was stopped and 'oh dear'. I had even rung and had a note on my file to say it would be used in NYC. I had to use my debit card and go into my emergency overdraft facility. If I ever go on holiday again I will take a variety of cards with me because they always end up being stopped. Being stuck abroad with no money and no fallback is not good.

augustsmummy

I had problems with the fraud protection a few years back. I had spent more than usual on my card - I was making a few final payments for my wedding (paid both caterers) and needed to withdraw the money for the band. My card was declined. As it was just after midnight, I decided I would try again in the morning.
At 8am on my wedding day (a friday) the fraud team rang and asked if I knew where my card was, I did, it was in my hand.
They said they had blocked the card as I used it in 2 different locations within an hour. (Both within the same town and easily commutable between the two within 10 minutes)
No problem they said, your card is now unblocked.
Went to use it at 6pm between wedding and reception, and the card was still blocked. I was a little :mad: and had to relie on my very nice bestman to foot the bill for the band.
The card was still blocked on the saturday so I went in to branch and they said that it had never been unblocked, nor was it down to be unblocked. She did unblock it so I could pay back my bestman.
I said I was not impressed it had been blocked as at no point had I gone over my withdrawl limit and the cash was there waiting. She said "well we can't win can we? We don't block soon enough and people complain, we block too soon and people complain!"

Surely it is common sense that a card can be used in the same town within an hour?
Rant over lol!

Enjoy your honeymoon OP
AMx

Ben8282

pimento wrote: »

This is a bit worrying for me, planning a trip to New Zealand in November with only a First Direct debit and credit card to my name.
I'm nervous about applying for another card to take incase the FD one doesn't work (although I've no reason to think I won't be accepted).

It's all very worrying.

New Zealand is not Colombia. The situation is not quite the same.

Tell your bank before you go. Expect the possibility of one security block being put on your card and your having to call First Direct once. It may or may not happen, but be prepared just in case it does.

The chance of your encountering a problem as described by the OP is very remote.

The advice to carry more than one card is always good advice in any situation, even at home, just in case. If you really don't have any other cards, then I would advise you to get a second one, just to have as a back up. Not specifically for your trip.

The advice to cary lots of cards is really aimed at travellers to less developed and/or non-English speaking countries where various problems may arise. If you are going on a 'normal' holiday to NZ, I wouldn't worry about this.

---

I'm sure even the OP would agree that using a debit card to withdraw over £7000 of 'savings' from a savings account, apparently built up over a period of years, in Colombia of all places is not exactly commonplace and therefore is likely to attract attention. There may well be some question as to what is going to be purchased with this money ... I'm not insinuating that the OP is doing anything untoward, just how it may look to the bank.

I was also wondering if this could have anything to do with the OP's account being only a savings account? What sort of debit card is it that you are using? Is it a full visa debit card or something more limited?

dawyldthing

I had the same. In Thailand last year they blocked my debit card first then not long after my credit card, at one point leaving me having no money at all, until i tried my credit card and all the sodding charges. They also blocked my card when I was working as a camp councellor in America (in fact they blocked me out of internet banking, telephone banking and any banking, managed to get some cash out of a cash point in the end, but New Yorks HSBC wouldn't help me get it sorted and they wouldn't unblock it as i couldn't remember when the last time i had withdrawn money out (i'd been abroad for 5 weeks by this point, and had past wages going in and out so didn't have a clue what it was) and I think I also had it happen in Canada. I never do banking with them abroad as its too risky that you won't have money. I was petrified having no money abroad, and although we shouldn't have, i had to get my mum to pretend she was me so that i could get hold of my money (note mine, not the banks, no overdraft or anything, they just wouldn't give me the money) I mostly take travellers cheques as i've lost faith in banking abroad, and its sad as they are normally a pretty good bank, but not when it comes to travelling as they would rather leave you penniless. There should be a limit, as realistically a looter of my card is unlikely to withdraw 100 quid and then again a few weeks

redpete

Plxply wrote: »

Whilst I agree that informing them should be enough, all transactions are run through a computer that determines whether they are fraudulent or not. All of this has to happen within a few milliseconds, either the computer was never "told" or it decided that they were suspicious enough even though they were aware.

The computer can't determine whether the OP originally made the transaction or lost their card abroad and didn't contact HSBC in time. Although I do think HSBC should use humans more as they do seem to just think if the computer says it's fraudulent then it is with no human making a decision.

But humans set the requirements for what the computer programme should do and humans write the code that should meet those requirements.

There should have been a requirement to allow human input to prevent the computer rejecting what had been notified in advance as being legitimate transactions. HSBC should implement a more intelligent risk scoring logic in the computer's decisions.

chattychappy

redpete wrote: »

But humans set the requirements for what the computer programme should do and humans write the code that should meet those requirements.

Yep I would have thought so. But humans also write T+Cs that make it clear that system breakdown can occur and other humans agree to such rules and pack plastic on that basis.

I'm being harsh, and such sweeping "let out" clauses are always open to legal challenge, but in the context of visa/mastercard use overseas I feel it's fair. We are talking about networks of banks cooperating (or not) over different time zones and legal jurisdictions. People expect to get money on demand at minimal cost. Not surprising that systems so easily fall over to "block". The sophistication isn't there to put a special note in to prevent a second block. Theoretically it could be - but I know from my professional experience (elsewhere in finance regulation) that it is these kind of exception procedures that are the toolkit for fraudsters.

I'm a software engineering by training but lawyer by profession and now involved in fraud/white collar crime. Not boasting, but really can see both sides to this. Plus, spending months overseas I'm no stranger to blocked card syndrome.

pimento

We will be doing a stopover in Japan en route.

I don't mind having another card, it's getting accepted for one that worries me. I don't want loads of dirty great footprints over my credit file.

Is it really as difficult to be accepted for a credit card these days as these forums imply?