Council Tax Benefit - ?????

Bradfield

fogartyblue. wrote: »

Nope I don't, all I want is for them to show me how THEY have worked their figures out before I show them mine!

Bieing nice, polite and gentlemanly does NOT work with the DWP, Pension Service or the council.

I have tried that approach in the past and was continually ignored. They all never reply to letters nor do they return promised telephone calls.

Presumably you already showed them your figures when you made the claim? According to the procedure (that you find on many council's web-sites) if you disagree with their decision then you write to them within one calendar month asking them for a "statement of reasons" and to look at the decision again.

If, after reviewing the case you feel that they have still got it wrong then you must tell them why you think they have got it wrong; then you ask for an appeal and eventually some wise people on the appeal panel look at your evidence (and figures) and decide that the council got it wrong.

That is the theory but I guess you have already been through some or all of these procedures and not had satisfaction.

What has gone wrong??

fogartyblue.

Bradfield wrote: »

Presumably you already showed them your figures when you made the claim? According to the procedure (that you find on many council's web-sites) if you disagree with their decision then you write to them within one calendar month asking them for a "statement of reasons" and to look at the decision again.

If, after reviewing the case you feel that they have still got it wrong then you must tell them why you think they have got it wrong; then you ask for an appeal and eventually some wise people on the appeal panel look at your evidence (and figures) and decide that the council got it wrong.

That is the theory but I guess you have already been through some or all of these procedures and not had satisfaction.

What has gone wrong??

Thanks

from what I am told so far, the council seem to be inferring that I am in receipt of an income (Pension Credit) when I am not and never have been.

Over the past 3 years our income has seen highs and some very lows, which related to other benefit claims being received, then turned down, re-assessed and put back up again - ESA/JSA & IIDB.

The last letter I received enclosed a letter typed out by the council with them asking us both to sign, giving the council the ability to discuss all of our benefit claims and obtaining copies of all claims made over the past 3 years.

I am not prepared to sign away our rights to protection under the Data Protection Act.
It seems the DWP/Pension Service will only give little bits to the council that they are required to. The council effectively want copies of everything but the DWP/Pension Service say that they are not entitled to any more info.

I have co-operated fully with the council, giving them full details of our income, it's just that the council want to make sure that they get the same info from these government departments.

Yes I have appealed, yes I have asked for a SOR, but to date the council are not too willing it seems to tell me how they have worked out our income. In other words - this the the total - just accept it!

anguk

Would it be possible for you to actually go to the council office and speak to someone who deals with housing and council tax benefit? We did that once when we had a query and they were able to tell us everything they had in their records about our income.

They seem to think you've got extra money coming in your house for some reason. Going by your figures you've got £372 coming in, of which £106 should be disregarded, giving an assessable income of £266, not the £389 they're saying. That's over £100 difference! I really don't know why they can't give you a breakdown of the figures? :huh:

Bradfield

anguk wrote: »

Would it be possible for you to actually go to the council office and speak to someone who deals with housing and council tax benefit? We did that once when we had a query and they were able to tell us everything they had in their records about our income.

They seem to think you've got extra money coming in your house for some reason. Going by your figures you've got £372 coming in, of which £106 should be disregarded, giving an assessable income of £266, not the £389 they're saying. That's over £100 difference! I really don't know why they can't give you a breakdown of the figures? :huh:

This is what puzzles me. According to the regulations (or guidelines) the council are supposed to provide a statement of reasons within 14 days (or shortly there-after) when asked to do so.

Without the SOR it is much more difficult for the o/p to pinpoint precisely where the misunderstanding is.

I would have thought that the way to go would be to insist on a formal appeal. Then the council would be forced to produce the SOR.

But the o/p says he has already been down the path of an appeal? I wonder whether it went to an actual hearing?

fogartyblue.

anguk wrote: »

Would it be possible for you to actually go to the council office and speak to someone who deals with housing and council tax benefit? We did that once when we had a query and they were able to tell us everything they had in their records about our income.

They seem to think you've got extra money coming in your house for some reason. Going by your figures you've got £372 coming in, of which £106 should be disregarded, giving an assessable income of £266, not the £389 they're saying. That's over £100 difference! I really don't know why they can't give you a breakdown of the figures? :huh:

Neither do I!

i have been down twice. Once to provide some additional evidence which they photocopied, and the second time to ask what is happening.

Yes they do think I have more money coming in, but I don't. I do think it is to do with Pension Credit but that just doesn't make any sense as if I did get PC I would get 100% CTB anyhow.

fogartyblue.

Bradfield wrote: »

This is what puzzles me. According to the regulations (or guidelines) the council are supposed to provide a statement of reasons within 14 days (or shortly there-after) when asked to do so.

Without the SOR it is much more difficult for the o/p to pinpoint precisely where the misunderstanding is.

I would have thought that the way to go would be to insist on a formal appeal. Then the council would be forced to produce the SOR.

But the o/p says he has already been down the path of an appeal? I wonder whether it went to an actual hearing?

No the appeal went in 2 weeks ago just after I received the re-assessments going back to 2009.

And I haven't heard a dicky bird since.

I'll just wait I suppose, hence my original question - about putting a bomb under their backsides!

Bradfield

fogartyblue. wrote: »

No the appeal went in 2 weeks ago just after I received the re-assessments going back to 2009.

And I haven't heard a dicky bird since.

I'll just wait I suppose, hence my original question - about putting a bomb under their backsides!

My guess is that they will be having another good look at it. They will not want to look foolish going in to the appeal panel with a poorly presented case.

If you took the appeal down personally; no problem. But if you posted it without getting a recorded delivery then it might be worth giving them a ring just to confirm that they have received it.

Good luck.

fluffymovie

As a council employee and team leader in benefits, I'd love to help but I'm too busy sitting on my fat backside and drinking tea!!!

After any benefit calculation we are required to send you a written notice detailing how we calculated income. If you ask for a statement of reasons, we break it down further but sounds like you know what the issue is, pension credit and no, getting PC does not mean you'd get 100% CTB. If you've sent in an appeal, they'll be looking at it. If you remain dissatisfied, make a formal complaint but perhaps if you stopped calling them lazy and stupid, they'd try and help more and earlier!

fogartyblue.

fluffymovie wrote: »

As a council employee and team leader in benefits, I'd love to help but I'm too busy sitting on my fat backside and drinking tea!!!

After any benefit calculation we are required to send you a written notice detailing how we calculated income. If you ask for a statement of reasons, we break it down further but sounds like you know what the issue is, pension credit and no, getting PC does not mean you'd get 100% CTB. If you've sent in an appeal, they'll be looking at it. If you remain dissatisfied, make a formal complaint but perhaps if you stopped calling them lazy and stupid, they'd try and help more and earlier!

Guaranteed Pension Credit, even if it is only 10p, DOES give automatic relief for 100% of the Council Tax.

OK, the council make a decision that is 'supposed' to be correct in every respect.

Yes a SOR has already been obtained prior to the appeal being sent in. And yes it did give a little more information. But the sticking point I have is that whilst they have identified where some of the income they have used has come from, they have 'lumped' most of it (46%) under the heading 'Other Unearned Incomes'.

This is no good to me for obvious reasons. How do I know if that 46% is correct. Yes they have given me a total figure, but how has it been calculated?

I have identified 15 different periods (changes in income) within the overall period of Jan 10 - Mar 12 where this 'Other Unearned Incomes' changes.
On the 24/2 I asked them to identify each and every source together with the amounts and reasons for using those figures in each of the 15 periods.

They have gone quiet. How do I put pressure on them to give me this information?

Whilst they, in some of the income details, have given relief for PAYE tax deducted. They have not given relief for the considerable amount of tax I have paid on the 31/1/11 (relevant to the income received in the year ended 5/4/10, and the tax paid on the 31/1/12 relevant to the income earned in the year ended 5/4/11) under the self assessment, on line system. They tell me that they can't as it is well beyond the 13 month time limit to backdate!

That's another problem I have with them.

Then as I said the council want me to sign a document authorising them to get hold of anything held by the Pension Service/DWP under the Data Protection Act. I am not prepared to sign away my rights.

They have the evidence I supplied and if the Pension Service/DWP can't for whatever reason supply the council with evidence to prove my figures, then that is not my fault!

Finally I do hope that they have used the correct figures all along as I don't want to see any errors.

We should be able to trust the council to get things right first time, every time. If not, what happens to those that do trust the council and pay up believing the amount to be correct when it really isn't?

It should make no difference to the way they work with how I am with them.
If it takes from the 24th February 2011 to now to answer some simple questions, and they haven't, what do you expect me to do? Just sit round waiting for them to finish their tea and biscuits?

fluffymovie

I'm well aware that guaranteed pension credit would mean 100% subject to non dep deductions but you didn't state what type of Pension Credit hence my comment.

They absolutely should break down the unearned income for you but perhaps if you were to talk to them like they're human beings instead of the anger you are displaying here, they might do it sooner. I'm sure you're frustrated and I can understand why but if they think speaking to the Pension Service will help why don't you just let them? Your rights are inalienable but you are demanding things but then refusing to enable them to do what they think appropriate.
In my authority, our declaration says we can share and obtain info from the pension service anyway so not sure why they feel they need to ask especially?