It's official! Petrols are now cheaper to run than diesels!!!!!

alastairq

the issue with servicing is, what exactly does the 'service' entail?

On a lot of vehicles with diesel and petrol engines in the model range, there are differences in brake and suspension parts..the diesel versions often costing more as they take into account the extra weights often associated with diesel engines.

So in respect of non-engine service items, there is a 'like-for-like' issue.


To be pedantic, to service my petrol engine costs around thirty quid.......oil, oil filter, airfilter, etc...and most of that cost is the oil!


For the future?

Diesel is more expensive to produce than plain petrol.

A reason why it costs more than petrol?

The two technologies are now very closely aligned, however.....with modern diesel technology following on from petrol technology,engine-wise.

The old ways of mechanical metering are long gone...now it's all about processors and common-rails and stuff.....perhaps the only real differences now twixt a diesel and petrol engine will lie in the cylinder head?

Now...compare a 1.3 petrol with a 1.3 diesel????



Incidentally, why have FIAT et al plumped for the twinair petrol engine as the way forward?

cyclonebri1

Never has so much carp/!!!!! been posted by so many but aimed at so few, well words to that effect, you get my drift, .

All the fears of expensive diesel repairs seem to be based on hearsay, yes high pressure pumps are expensive but when you consider your investment in the car they become acceptable.

Lets leave buying new cars outside this topic, if you do that then you are on the wrong forum, exc accepted,;)

Buy at the right price and mileage, and it becomes a straight forward equation of fuel versus maintenance, and don't be fooled by anyone who says diesels are expensive to maintain, they aren't. Unless you think petrol cars don't go wrong.

Ask the Nissan and Toyota owners I see every week on the M1 hard shoulder if you think I'm wrong.:A

alastairq

or the Mitsubishi or Peugeot owners who curse their diesels?


Yes, it's all hearsay....maybe all of it is simple perceptions?

It isn't the engine itself which is the real [expensive] problem .....

it's all the other stuff like alternators, starters, brakes and suspension items......to name but a few....which on many models have a higher price because they are heavier duty.

Trebor16

worried_jim wrote: »

There was an article in the Times a few weeks ago that said if you buy a new diesel car it would take 9 years driving 12,000 miles a year just to break even over buying the same models petrol equivalent. The example they used was a VW Polo. Very interesting reading.

It would be interesting to see which models they used for the comparison. A Polo Match 1.2 (70ps) is £1345 cheaper to buy than a Polo Match 1.2 TDi (75ps). Fuel consumption on the combined is 51.4 for the petrol and 72.4 for the diesel. Over 12000 miles that would mean the following fuel costs:-

1.2 petrol - 1061 litres @ £1.369 = £1452

1.2 diesel - 754 litres @ £1.439 = £1085

A difference of £367 a year.

Road tax for the petrol is £90 a year and £20 for the diesel.

So you have a difference of £437 a year.

Using those figures that will take just over 3 years to make up the difference.

I have used the match trim as a comparison because the diesel is not available in S or S (A/C) trim levels. You could compare the cost of the S petrol against the diesel to get a bigger difference between the costs of petrol and diesel but then you would not be comapring identical cars (apart from the engine difference of course).

Trebor16

vax2002 wrote: »

Its the cold start that sups diesel, often why you see taxis with engines running, they use less by letting it run than constant cold starts.

That's not the case, I can see mid 50's to the gallon being recorded on my Golf on short local journeys around town without any problem. A petrol engine used in the same conditions would not be as fuel efficient.

Trebor16

harveybobbles wrote: »

But the £440 will be spent else where repairing a diesel...

And what repairs would you be referring to?

Trebor16

alastairq wrote: »

the issue with servicing is, what exactly does the 'service' entail?

On a lot of vehicles with diesel and petrol engines in the model range, there are differences in brake and suspension parts..the diesel versions often costing more as they take into account the extra weights often associated with diesel engines.

So in respect of non-engine service items, there is a 'like-for-like' issue.

Not always the case. My old Meriva 1.7CDTi used the same brake pads as the petrol engined models. It was the same with my Rover 45 diesel too, same discs and pads as petrol engined varients.

alaistairq wrote:

To be pedantic, to service my petrol engine costs around thirty quid.......oil, oil filter, airfilter, etc...and most of that cost is the oil!

What about the spark plugs and fuel filter? Are you using OEM parts?

alaistairq wrote:

Incidentally, why have FIAT et al plumped for the twinair petrol engine as the way forward?

WHo else other than Fiat uses the twinair engine? Have you seen the real world consumption figures that many owners are getting with these engines? They are a long way from the claimed figures.

grizzly1911

andygb wrote: »

A link to the Skoda forums - what I would expext, around 40MPG tops.

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/156097-felicia-poor-fuel-consumption/

Had a J reg Ford Escort 1.3 HCS, (pushrod engine), 5 speed, would do 40 round town and get close to 50 on "runs". Not much power but would rev reasonably well and cruise OK, for an old engine.

Current 2.0TD Avensis will do 55 mpg at 70/80 on motorways and averages 47-50, is smooth and has more than enough grunt, probably 2+times power and 3-4 times torque.

Accept diesels may be expensive to repair with turbos/DMFs but doubt these go routinely. Regular servicing (= oil changes) and consumables are are not much different price wise.

IME I still think diesels have the edge if kept over a a few years and you are not a ditch finder bothered with out and out performance.

Nearly_Old

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Accept diesels may be expensive to repair with turbos/DMFs but doubt these go routinely. Regular servicing (= oil changes) and consumables are are not much different price wise.

I've noticed lots of similar quotes to the above re: diesels and DMFs and personally IMHO I think that another Urban Myth is developing as 10 mins on the internet:

07 2.0 Mondeo - DMF on both petrol & diesel.
07 2.0 CMax - DMF on both petrol & diesel.
07 2.0 Audi A4 - DMF on both petrol & diesel.
07 2.0 BMW 3 Series - DMF on both petrol & diesel.

Once a manufacturer has decided to fit DMFs they are usually fitted to all variants (i.e. petrol & diesel) as a DMF is purely about how the clutch operates irrespective of what fuel the engine is burning. Of course there may be some manufacturers that don't fit DMFs to all engines but it was only a quick look at some common models.

On my C5 the DMF flywheel is still OK at 111k but the DMF pulley on the end of the camshaft started to fail at 75k.

Biglad_3

Nearly_Old wrote: »

I've noticed lots of similar quotes to the above re: diesels and DMFs and personally IMHO I think that another Urban Myth is developing as 10 mins on the internet

It's not an urban myth actually as the DMF on a diesel is under much more 'stress' than a petrol due to the extra vibration and torque.

That's why they go wrong more often in diesels.