Restoration of the age related allowance

margaretclare

The fact that even a car is considered a basic essential of retirement shows how much has changed in more recent years.

Two points: 1. It IS a basic essential if you find yourself unable to use the much-discussed free bus pass. It is about 'quality of life'.

We don 't buy new cars, a good car a few years old is fine for us. The present one, which we changed to last December, is 09, so it's 3 years old.

2. It may be an essential so that you don't have to 'look poor'. The definition of poverty, IIRC, is not being able to enjoy the same standard of living as your reference group i.e. people around you. If the people in your reference group drive a car, go on holidays etc, then you feel poor if you can't do the same. If everyone about you as far as the eye can see is struggling just to put food on the table and can't afford holidays or a car, then it's different.

Funny how both my pensioner brother & MiL choose to still afford to smoke!

Yes, funny how they can. There's a bus stop in our market square and I often see older people there waiting for the bus, smoking! One of them accosted me one day when I'd just come out of the dentist's which is near the bus stop. 'I can't afford to go there, they make you pay!' I explained that I claim back the cost from SimplyHealth (used to be HSA). Maybe if she wasn't smoking she could afford a SimplyHealth subscription.

Thrugelmir

margaretclare wrote: »

2. It may be an essential so that you don't have to 'look poor'. The definition of poverty, IIRC, is not being able to enjoy the same standard of living as your reference group i.e. people around you. If the people in your reference group drive a car, go on holidays etc, then you feel poor if you can't do the same. If everyone about you as far as the eye can see is struggling just to put food on the table and can't afford holidays or a car, then it's different.

Because people "do things" doesn't necessarily mean they can afford them. People that withdrew equity during the boom years of rising property prices are now paying the price.

So I don't buy that argument. Happiness is born out of self contentment not envy of others. .

margaretclare

It's not *my* argument! It's the definition of relative poverty from, IIRC, Professor Peter Townsend. "resources that are so seriously below those commanded by the average individual or family that they are, in effect, excluded from ordinary living patterns, customs and activities"

http://www.s-cool.co.uk/a-level/sociology/poverty/revise-it/relative-poverty

Thrugelmir

margaretclare wrote: »

It's not *my* argument! It's the definition of relative poverty from, IIRC, Professor Peter Townsend. "resources that are so seriously below those commanded by the average individual or family that they are, in effect, excluded from ordinary living patterns, customs and activities"

http://www.s-cool.co.uk/a-level/sociology/poverty/revise-it/relative-poverty

This stood out to me.

Townsend had concluded that a definition of poverty based solely on income was inadequate,

Ainsley1

I did wonder about adding the cost (and saving up to replace) of a car in a pensioners expenses. I did decide to because for some it is essential. It is also an essential for some working persons - until recently me included!

I live in an area with very inadequate public transport where some journeys are just not possible. I am perhaps in a minority but am far from being alone in that respect. Often getting to/from hospital appointments or even just visiting the sick neighbour who has been admitted (having visitors is an act of friendship that we all need especially when 'laid up'); doing a weekly or monthly shop; or even to go to the cinema/bingo/swimming pool (in fact almost any night out!) or see relatives requires independent means. This is normally by car but could be by taxis. Take your pick on costs.

So this comes down to: should we allow for that quality of life to be an essential; or just cater for the those with good public transport. I also know of several pensioners who use their cars on a voluntary basis to help others who cannot drive. Mileage gets paid but you cannot volunteer if you do not have a car in the first instance!

OK lets just set the system for Mr or Mrs average and give those with poor transport links free Taxi rides.........

I decided to include as Mr and Mrs average get other compensating facilities that the minority can only dream about.

One could just as easily add more for heating in westerly or northern locations, higher building maintenance cost for those in old property, rent for the non owner occupier, ferry costs (and increased cost of just about everything) if you live in the highlands and islands of Scotland...but I thought the point was made. It was nothing to do with perceived poverty more like defined fuel poverty.

margaretclare

The phrase 'quality of life' is very important, as illustrated in the examples in the post above. Even the NHS takes into account 'quality of life' in any decision for or against treatment! Arguments in these threads so far have focused mainly on emotive issues like 'pensioners being thrown into the streets' whereas in fact, it is far less clear-cut than that.

Pensioners, just like any other group in society, are not all alike. That really is stating the bleedin' obvious, but we are stereotyped by the media and in threads like this one.

Just around the time the free bus pass scheme came in, there was a lady in her 90s who lived near us. Bus passes would have been useless to her, but she did take a taxi every week on market day to get her hair done and whatever else she had to do. She's no longer with us, but her weekly taxi-fare into town and back was obviously an essential expense to her.

harz99

harz99 wrote: »

Very few things are ever a "complete and utter waste of time", and as someone said "its not over until the fat lady sings".

So please sign the e-petition at

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31778

thanks.

66669 now signed.

jamesd

Just 240,000 to go to match the number the pasty tax petition got.

hugheskevi

At the current rate of signatures (44 per day since 3rd June), by the time it reaches 100,000 signatures this thread (5.6 posts per day since 3rd June) will have 4,534 posts :eek:

Oh well, doing my bit with this one

Jennifer_Jane

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

It really is not an us and them situation.

This could be turned on its head by saying pre pension aged families have children, mortgage, full council tax, prescriptions, pension, child care, bus fares all in addition to the expenses of a pensioner and start to pay tax on more of their earnings earlier. Oh and none of the other discounts those of pension age are entitled to.

Funny how both my pensioner brother & MiL choose to still afford to smoke!

All that has happened is the older persons tax allowance has been frozen until the standard rate catches up.

I'm not entirely sure, but don't most people at this stage of their lives on a similar income to mine (just under £12,000 gross p.a) get numerous benefits - working tax credit/child benefit, and very possibly salary benefits and discounts (my old company had a good load of discounts, health schemes, and all kinds of things).

MonkeyMad wrote: »

But to be fair a £1500 Toyota or Honda or any other modern car about 10 years old is not going to cost £1500 year on year to run. You can get a replacement engine for less than that. Entire set of discs and pads £400. I have had a succession of old cheap cars that have never cost anything like £1500 or even £500/ a year to buy and maintain and that includes the MOT. This has included thing like getting the air-con fixed which is hardly a necessity. and I change them every 4 or 5 years when I fancy a change not because they are broken. And no, I don't do any work myself except changing the lightbulbs.

You may choose to buy new cars because you believe they are more reliable, but I doubt if there is real evidence to suggest that any reasonable condition car around £1500 will cost the same again to run year on year.

Well only my own personal experience of a 12 year old Micra which was costing about £1500 a year. I was fortunate the scrappage scheme came along and I could replace with a new car. I prefer the lower tax and enjoy the increased reliability.