Restoration of the age related allowance

Thrugelmir

Ainsley1 wrote: »

I didn't want to really get embroiled in an argument that seems to be going nowhere and I cannot but agree that a sensible level of pension income could be 60% of working salary - provided you are on a decent salary to begin with! 60% of a £15K wage is just £9000 and hardly sufficient. That is more than the proposed £140 per week flat rate.

Even the proposed £140 pw flat rate equates to a pension fund of some £200k to fund it.

Ultimately people will have to take their decisions as to what's important during their working lives. The choice is simple. Spend or save.

Jennifer_Jane

Just a point about pensioners' costs, and it has been mentioned that 69% of people over 65 own their own homes outright and do not, therefore, have to pay mortgages. Could I ask though that people remember that houses need to be maintained, and these costs with aging plumbing, for instance, can be a huge proportion of people's income. Well, they are of my income.

I signed the petition, and would still do so despite all the points made here.

Personally, I'd quite like to see a much more simplified tax system - no child benefit, no over-65 tax allowance, no working tax credit. No social tinkering from the Government - you earn money, you pay tax! But since they do this, then I'd like them to 'tinker' to my benefit if they are doing that for others' benefit.

Thrugelmir

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

and it has been mentioned that 69% of people over 65 own their own homes outright

Do they? Only 62% of all property is owner occupied. That figure includes mortgaged property.

Jennifer_Jane

jamesd wrote: »

It's worth remembering here that pensioners do not need to have as much income as a person who is not a pensioner. Here are some of the reasons why:

1. Housing costs. Far more pensioners own their homes outright so no longer have a mortgage to pay. (FRS page 38)

Households with one or more adults over pension age:
Owned outright: 69%
Buying with mortgage: 8%
Social rented: 18%
Private rented: 5%

All households:
Owned outright: 33%
Buying with mortgage: 35%
Social rented: 17%
Private rented: 15%

So those receiving a state pension are mostly owner-occupiers or in social housing. Households where there's state pension income are 31% of all households.

.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Do they? Only 62% of all property is owner occupied. That figure includes mortgaged property.

Thrugelmir - "Do they?" I've no idea! Was just quoting Jamesd. Is it not so? And my point was that it should be remembered when looking at Pensioners' costs, that often their houses are also aging, and need heavy maintenance costs which are a big proportion of their income.

Do you disagree with my point?

Mrs_Arcanum

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

Thrugelmir - "Do they?" I've no idea! Was just quoting Jamesd. Is it not so? And my point was that it should be remembered when looking at Pensioners' costs, that often their houses are also aging, and need heavy maintenance costs which are a big proportion of their income.

Do you disagree with my point?

In some properties they would have this expense throughout the time they owned the property regardless. Becoming a pensioner does not suddenly increase their expenditure.

Jennifer_Jane

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

In some properties they would have this expense throughout the time they owned the property regardless. Becoming a pensioner does not suddenly increase their expenditure.

Naturally - my point was to ask people to remember that there are costs other than mortgage costs, associated with owning houses.

I certainly agree with Jamesd point about clothing and transport costs for working people, but these costs are off-set by people using work electricity and heating during the times they are at work.

It may well be that maintenance costs become less manageable on vastly reduced pensioner incomes. Certainly I am finding that for one. What I could have afforded out of income when I was working, now comes out of savings.

Do you not agree?

"Becoming a pensioner does not suddenly increase their expenditure", it does, however, increase in proportion to a radically reduced income from salary to pension.

Mrs_Arcanum

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

Naturally - my point was to ask people to remember that there are costs other than mortgage costs, associated with owning houses.

I certainly agree with Jamesd point about clothing and transport costs for working people, but these costs are off-set by people using work electricity and heating during the times they are at work.

It may well be that maintenance costs become less manageable on vastly reduced pensioner incomes. Certainly I am finding that for one. What I could have afforded out of income when I was working, now comes out of savings.

Do you not agree?

"Becoming a pensioner does not suddenly increase their expenditure", it does, however, increase in proportion to a radically reduced income from salary to pension.

TBH when we reach retirement and the children have left home we plan to downsize to a low maintenance property and use the spare money to live a bit & help our children.

Don't see the point in hanging on to high cost bricks & mortar with high council tax & other bills when we may not be fit enough or well off enough to manage.

Jennifer_Jane

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

TBH when we reach retirement and the children have left home we plan to downsize to a low maintenance property and use the spare money to live a bit & help our children.

Don't see the point in hanging on to high cost bricks & mortar with high council tax & other bills when we may not be fit enough or well off enough to manage.

Good plan and good luck with buying a low-maintenance property (in other words new or newish) which will obviously be in an area which suits you and at the price you want....

That was my plan. I tried to do this, my house didn't sell (at a price which would have enabled downsizing to a low maintenance - ie newer - property). Two sales fell through, and it was a miserable experience.

Regarding my council tax, my house is rated B, so I'm not living in some great family house in luxury.

My experience is that you can have grand plans for the future, but it doesn't always mean that it works out.

But my point was not about me, it was that I was asking people to remember that there are additional house costs other than mortgage costs. These costs are usually a higher proportion to a radically reduced pensioner income than when you are working.

It's fine to ask all pensioners who are struggling with maintenance to move, yes, good idea, but the point is it's not always the best or most practical thing (will you be moving away from friends and family to get to this low-maintenance house? Would you be happy to do that if, sadly, it was just you). There just aren't the number of new (ie low maintenance) houses available at prices people can afford. And if someone is in a house for 20 years, they are going to have maintenance costs as things wear out.

PS - don't forget that you also need to bring your house with it's old plumbing up to scratch in order to be able to get the sale for it too.

Mrs_Arcanum

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

Good plan and good luck with buying a low-maintenance property (in other words new or newish) which will obviously be in an area which suits you and at the price you want....

That was my plan. I tried to do this, my house didn't sell (at a price which would have enabled downsizing to a low maintenance - ie newer - property). Two sales fell through, and it was a miserable experience.

Regarding my council tax, my house is rated B, so I'm not living in some great family house in luxury.

My experience is that you can have grand plans for the future, but it doesn't always mean that it works out.

But my point was not about me, it was that I was asking people to remember that there are additional house costs other than mortgage costs. These costs are usually a higher proportion to a radically reduced pensioner income than when you are working.

It's fine to ask all pensioners who are struggling with maintenance to move, yes, good idea, but the point is it's not always the best or most practical thing (will you be moving away from friends and family to get to this low-maintenance house? Would you be happy to do that if, sadly, it was just you). There just aren't the number of new (ie low maintenance) houses available at prices people can afford. And if someone is in a house for 20 years, they are going to have maintenance costs as things wear out.

Even before the changes people failed to maintain properties they lived in all their lives. Our old house is now 2 swanky brand new 5 bed houses because of lack of maintenance. A friend has recently taken on a lovely 500 year old property that has had no work done for 50 years.

As things are going it is only by older people downsizing that family sized houses will become available. Not forgetting the new rules on number of rooms needed for HB purposes will not apply to pensioners so family sized social housing will remain blocked.

Or is it better to give older people a few pounds extra tax allowance to continue to not maintain a property they rattle around in. It really is only a few pounds extra tax allowance increase they will not be getting, not some truly worthwhile amount of money.

Jennifer_Jane

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

Even before the changes people failed to maintain properties they lived in all their lives. Our old house is now 2 swanky brand new 5 bed houses because of lack of maintenance. A friend has recently taken on a lovely 500 year old property that has had no work done for 50 years.

As things are going it is only by older people downsizing that family sized houses will become available. Not forgetting the new rules on number of rooms needed for HB purposes will not apply to pensioners so family sized social housing will remain blocked.

Or is it better to give older people a few pounds extra tax allowance to continue to not maintain a property they rattle around in. It really is only a few pounds extra tax allowance increase they will not be getting, not some truly worthwhile amount of money.

I repeat, I was simply asking for people to remember that there ARE maintenance costs involved for pensioners. It is facile to simply say, as jamesd implied, that there are no other costs to accommodation if you don't have a mortgage.

I, for one, am certainly not rattling round in my own little house. I'm hardly Miss Haversham.