Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

Mike_by_the_Sea

Plushchris wrote: »

I asked Carmine this question the other day (he chose to ignore it for some reason)

Whats to stop a UW customer switching to *whoever pays most cashback* (a quick look on quidco says cashback is £62 for Eon and SP I'm sure there are better deals elsewhere) then switching back to UW afterwards? Thus gaining the extra £100 discount from UW and "trousering" (carmine's term) £62 cashback?

End result £162 a year better off, in the meantime yes, you may lose the call allowance on the homephone but you can surely still carry on using your cashback card? And also the savings made from the cheaper gas and electricity would help to offset the loss of free calls for the few months the switching cycle takes.

Obviously carmine chose to ignore it following his comment on cashback being there to lure "gullibles" in (despite the fact he used to do it all the time, in fact he was waiting for cashback from SP before switching to UW, obviously the word gullible doesnt apply if its him getting the cashback :rolleyes:)

Hi PChris

Carmine wouldn't have access to the information - The £100 discount is only available to new customers (and excludes returning customers).

We regret that this promotion is only open to households who have not previously been customers of the Utility Warehouse – it is not possible for existing customers to qualify by cancelling an existing account and then re-applying during the promotion period.

All the best

Mike

Plushchris

vern190374 wrote: »

Also I notice you have ignored the example (and indeed it is only one I could give you several) where people are saving money from the bundled approach to Utlitlities and use of the cash card which far outweighs the cost savings they would be making from having individual best buy products.

I also note how you have ignored my question regarding how you can work out "the way in which energy is used" from a gas or electricity bill.

Bills tell you nothing whatsoever about how energy is used, just how much you have used in a month/quarter. Smart meters will only break that down into smaller half hour increments, they still dont tell you how its used.

Is this one of the sales pitches you are taught by UW?

Plushchris

1carminestocky wrote: »

Yes, I agree. But their T&Cs for Online 5 are, on the whole, pretty puzzling anyway. But if it isn't in any way a future consideration, why even put that T&C there in the first place? It certainly covers them should they decide to put Online 5 prices up, even by a considerable margin. I suppose it would depend on just how apathetic their customers are as to whether it would be worth their while trying it on. I do wonder, though, how many of their recent-acquired punters even noticed this T&C and realised its potential significance? Aren't you now with EDF, PC? If so, did you? Be honest now.

No, I'm not with EDF

1carminestocky

Plushchris wrote: »

No, I'm not with EDF

Sorry, I meant SP.

forextc

Plushchris wrote: »

I also note how you have ignored my question regarding how you can work out "the way in which energy is used" from a gas or electricity bill.

Bills tell you nothing whatsoever about how energy is used, just how much you have used in a month/quarter. Smart meters will only break that down into smaller half hour increments, they still dont tell you how its used.

Is this one of the sales pitches you are taught by UW?

Ah the usual UW basher.

It's quite simple actually, but I'll explain it to you.

You will notice that each provider has a different metric for billing. By this I mean that some have low standing charges, some high. Some bill at a fixed rate per unit and some will discount only after a certain level of units are used.

Therefore it stands to reason if you are a 'low' energy user then you will benefit from paying a 'lower' standing charge so long as the billed unit price is not excessive. A high energy user could potentially benefit from the reverse.

I forget the company on one of sites I saw which is being touted as the best current tariff (it's not one of the big six and I will dig it out if you need proof) : for me personally as a low energy user of gas their standing charge was over 9 times the amount of what I pay with UW and the differntial in their unit price was minimal. So for me it makes sense to pay a higher charge per unit with UW than 8-9 times the standing charge before I have even turned anything on.

Obivously if you are a high user of units then the standing charge may not be such an issue as there is a cut off point where you would benefit from the cheaper per unit price.

For others this may not be the case.

For gas in particular, standing charges make the cost comparison differntial harder to work out, especially when comparing bills from the summer months when typcially gas usage is at its lowest.

The mobile telephony contract world works in a similar way. Tariffs include loads of free minutes so people believe that they are getting a good deal. The reality is that many don't actually use the huge amounts of free minutes (which are actually included in the tariff price of course!), so in real world usage they may actually be better off paying a per minute rate than the percieved value they are getting with the bundled packages.

Remember sites quote on average usage. While there is nothing wrong with this, the reality is that with all things, a lot of people are not 'average' users. If we want to go really deep into this, is this the mean, median or mode average as this will produce drastically differing interpretations of what the average actually is?

1carminestocky

Vern, I think the provider you describe is first:utility*. I think it's fair to say that switching sites results can only ever be arrived at by using guesswork. No matter how it's dressed up in gobbldigook and mathematical formulae, the bottom line is they are guessing at a punter's seasonal usage. Of course if Milk Snatcher hadn't sold off the family silver there wouldn't have been any need for such sites, the Big 6 or, indeed, UW.


* Pricing Details (Yorkshire Region)
Gas
Standing charge 33.60p per day (£122.64 per year)

Electricity

Standing charge 31.50p per day (£114.98 per year)

Cardew

vern190374 wrote: »

"So please explain how one of your customers on a Websaver had 'slipped' to the Standard Tariff."

Lol. I love you. Read the post. You are so tiresome in your inablity to absorb information. If you actually read the post I orignally put you will see that there is no mention of the Websaver tariff user slipping tariff. They are making the savings via the Cashback card.

However as already posted the Websave tariff only purports to supply discounted rates for 12 months (read the t+cs' again only this time take note of what they actually say)

Many more clients have however slipped tariffs that they signed upto either from door to door sales men or web deals that they signed up to 12 months or more ago.

If you are going to come back with something please put together a reasoned response as you quite clearly show you have an inablilty to absorb the information posted on here and discredit yourself.

Also I notice you have ignored the example (and indeed it is only one I could give you several) where people are saving money from the bundled approach to Utlitlities and use of the cash card which far outweighs the cost savings they would be making from having individual best buy products.

I did read the original post and that is why I commented that it was a pity you edited it after 40 minutes.

If you were not referring to your Websaver customer 'slipping' to a standard tariff then what is the relevance of this remark:

Yawn! BG Websaver only offer their 6% discount for the first year after which they reserve the right to stick you back on their standard tariff. It's in the T+C's

Why is it even a factor in the discussion?

Even if BG were to exercise that right(I haven't seen the T & Cs) it wouldn't happen until next year at the earliest.

If you are wishing for reasoned arguments, I suggest you re-visit your earlier posts and correct or substantiate many of the statements you made.

The 4 gas and electricity tariffs from BG etc, that you worked out were much more expensive, would be a good place to start.

The problem for you is that we have all previously seen the tactics you employed in your posts.

Nothing personal - just internet banter!

P.S.
Does 190374 have a relevance?

Plushchris

1carminestocky wrote: »

Sorry, I meant SP.

Well the tariff I'm on with SP isnt the same sort of "tracker" so there isnt the same clause.

forextc

I can't even be bothered to quote the bit where you said that websaver customers don't slip back to standard tariff but hence why I quoted what I had read in the t+c's that the 6% discount applies for the first year only.

Of the examples I gave where it was clearly stated that the users had slipped to the standard tariff the compaines involved were BG, Scottish Power and EDF.

It really is so hard to have a reasoned debate when I simply end up repeating what has already been posted.

Btw I came across a customer the other week who had a capped deal with BG until 2011 and advised them to stick with it because I couldn't touch it on price, even with the bundled offering. As I say UW does not work for everyone, all of the time.

Sorry can't remember the username but you are right it is First Utility. This was a good example for me becuase although the comparison site had recommended this for me I would have actually been worse off due to my non average usage.

I'm not strictly speaking a Comparison site basher as they do give a good starting point for comparison. I would however urge people to read the small print and look beyond them when doing their research as, after all, they are in the buiness of making money. Even take Martin Lewis. If people think he started this site out of the goodness of his heart then think again!

The 190374? It's just a code but of course I'm not going to tell you to what! :-)

Plushchris

vern190374 wrote: »

Remember sites quote on average usage. While there is nothing wrong with this, the reality is that with all things, a lot of people are not 'average' users. If we want to go really deep into this, is this the mean, median or mode average as this will produce drastically differing interpretations of what the average actually is?

What sites quote on average usage? All the ones I use quote on exact usage, the only way you will get a quote on average usage is if you put average usage in.

I suggest you arent using the comparison sites correctly, either on purpose so as to try and discredit them or by accident because you dont know how they work, you say you are a lower user so put your usage into the site, low or otherwise you will see that UW come way down the list.

If I put my usage into energyhelpline then UW's cheapest dual fuel tariff comes out 66th in a list of 71 tariffs from all of the suppliers.

If I look at gas and electricity seperately..

UW electricity tariff comes out 43rd in a list of 67

Gas comes 19th in a list of 30

That is on MY usage, not an average, so how do you explain UW showing so low in all three areas?