ESA Questions including medical ones

kathie1101

Really struggling to get everything together for my appeal (appealing being placed in WRAG) which is not helped by the fact that I find it hard to concentrate and even more so that it has taken 3 attempts to get my score sheet from them.

At the moment I am wondering if it is even worth me continuing with the appeal as I am not sure if I can cope with it all and not even sure if I even qualify for the support group anyway on their descriptors. What exactly does repeatedly and reliably mean anyway???

Anyway, to my questions - if I decided to not continue with the appeal is it still possible to have them acknowledge the mistakes that the doctor has made? I'm not sure if the current assessment has any bearing on any future ones (if any) but it just feels wrong that there are so many mistakes in the report - or would I say that I am cancelling the appeal but want it put on record that I dispute x,y & z in the medical report?

On the medical report she has stated that my hip flexion and external hip rotation is normal, but then stated that she was unable to formally test hip movements due to restricted knee movements. When I completed the GL24 I asked how these were tested and have been told "Information for the medical Services hand book details that hip movement is tested with the claimant lying on the couch and for the hip, - flexion, extension, abduction, internal and external rotation are assessed. The normal range for extension rotation is 45degrees"
Obviously this doesn't really answer my question as to exactly how these were done. So I wonder if somebody could either tell me how they are done, or watch this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4T8jy5Qszw&feature=related (start at 2mins 30 secs) and tell me if the hip flexion and external hip rotation that the doctor on the video does are the same as the ATOS doctors do. As you can probably guess, I'm convinced that they didn't test my hips (certainly didn't do it like in the video), and the doctor stated that she didn't formally test them so how can she state they are normal? Is there another way? Ok I know they are medical questions, but maybe a medical person will read and be willing to answer.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

HB58

If the ATOS HCP did not do a formal hip examination, I suspect that she watched you walk, climb stairs and sit and drew her own conclusions. I think this is something they do a lot.

fogartyblue.

HB58 wrote: »

If the ATOS HCP did not do a formal hip examination, I suspect that she watched you walk, climb stairs and sit and drew her own conclusions. I think this is something they do a lot.

Yes it is. They get more information when people are at ease and believing that they are not being observed.

There he goes walking the length of the car park, climbing three steps, sitting down then getting up unaided to pick up a magazine and collect a cup of water at the same time.

Then the assessor comes to ask him to come with him to the assessment room. Five steps, wheezing, holding on to the wall, then shuffling the rest of the 5 metres. Takes 2 mins to try and sit down!!!

They have such things as CCTV both covering the outside AND the reception area!!

If you are going to try and be deceitful, do a better job at it - well that's what ATOS tell me.

fogartyblue.

kathie1101 wrote: »

Really struggling to get everything together for my appeal (appealing being placed in WRAG) which is not helped by the fact that I find it hard to concentrate and even more so that it has taken 3 attempts to get my score sheet from them.

At the moment I am wondering if it is even worth me continuing with the appeal as I am not sure if I can cope with it all and not even sure if I even qualify for the support group anyway on their descriptors. What exactly does repeatedly and reliably mean anyway???

Anyway, to my questions - if I decided to not continue with the appeal is it still possible to have them acknowledge the mistakes that the doctor has made? I'm not sure if the current assessment has any bearing on any future ones (if any) but it just feels wrong that there are so many mistakes in the report - or would I say that I am cancelling the appeal but want it put on record that I dispute x,y & z in the medical report?

On the medical report she has stated that my hip flexion and external hip rotation is normal, but then stated that she was unable to formally test hip movements due to restricted knee movements. When I completed the GL24 I asked how these were tested and have been told "Information for the medical Services hand book details that hip movement is tested with the claimant lying on the couch and for the hip, - flexion, extension, abduction, internal and external rotation are assessed. The normal range for extension rotation is 45degrees"
Obviously this doesn't really answer my question as to exactly how these were done. So I wonder if somebody could either tell me how they are done, or watch this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4T8jy5Qszw&feature=related (start at 2mins 30 secs) and tell me if the hip flexion and external hip rotation that the doctor on the video does are the same as the ATOS doctors do. As you can probably guess, I'm convinced that they didn't test my hips (certainly didn't do it like in the video), and the doctor stated that she didn't formally test them so how can she state they are normal? Is there another way? Ok I know they are medical questions, but maybe a medical person will read and be willing to answer.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

On what specific grounds are you suggesting that you believe that you should be in the Support Group?

Do you feel that you are categorised at the same level of inability to work as would say a terminally ill person would be or one that is suffering from a painful life threatening condition?

From what I have read in your post, I would say that you have been really lucky to get in the Work Group!

tomla

kathie1101 wrote: »

Really struggling to get everything together for my appeal (appealing being placed in WRAG) which is not helped by the fact that I find it hard to concentrate and even more so that it has taken 3 attempts to get my score sheet from them.

At the moment I am wondering if it is even worth me continuing with the appeal as I am not sure if I can cope with it all and not even sure if I even qualify for the support group anyway on their descriptors. What exactly does repeatedly and reliably mean anyway???

Anyway, to my questions - if I decided to not continue with the appeal is it still possible to have them acknowledge the mistakes that the doctor has made? I'm not sure if the current assessment has any bearing on any future ones (if any) but it just feels wrong that there are so many mistakes in the report - or would I say that I am cancelling the appeal but want it put on record that I dispute x,y & z in the medical report?

On the medical report she has stated that my hip flexion and external hip rotation is normal, but then stated that she was unable to formally test hip movements due to restricted knee movements. When I completed the GL24 I asked how these were tested and have been told "Information for the medical Services hand book details that hip movement is tested with the claimant lying on the couch and for the hip, - flexion, extension, abduction, internal and external rotation are assessed. The normal range for extension rotation is 45degrees"
Obviously this doesn't really answer my question as to exactly how these were done. So I wonder if somebody could either tell me how they are done, or watch this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4T8jy5Qszw&feature=related (start at 2mins 30 secs) and tell me if the hip flexion and external hip rotation that the doctor on the video does are the same as the ATOS doctors do. As you can probably guess, I'm convinced that they didn't test my hips (certainly didn't do it like in the video), and the doctor stated that she didn't formally test them so how can she state they are normal? Is there another way? Ok I know they are medical questions, but maybe a medical person will read and be willing to answer.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Stick to the facts, don't compare their assessment to a youtube video. Just stick to the fact that they did not asses your HIP (from what you say this is stated in their report) and then they state it was normal.

Do not make too much of someone judging you on these forums, if you want to appeal it then do but being in the WRAG may actually suit you better if you are looking to return to work at some point.

tomla

fogartyblue. wrote: »

On what specific grounds are you suggesting that you believe that you should be in the Support Group?

Do you feel that you are categorised at the same level of inability to work as would say a terminally ill person would be or one that is suffering from a painful life threatening condition?

From what I have read in your post, I would say that you have been really lucky to get in the Work Group!

You may find it interesting to actually know the range of disability that defines someone being in the Support Group, it is for people who don't have a great prospect of getting or returning to work in the longer term.

Your views may offend the group you think your are defending by comparing what you believe to be insignificant disabilities to life threatening illnesses.

As you were unable to help the person who posted the question perhaps an attack on them was best left not written.

kathie1101

fogartyblue. wrote: »

Yes it is. They get more information when people are at ease and believing that they are not being observed.

There he goes walking the length of the car park, climbing three steps, sitting down then getting up unaided to pick up a magazine and collect a cup of water at the same time.

Then the assessor comes to ask him to come with him to the assessment room. Five steps, wheezing, holding on to the wall, then shuffling the rest of the 5 metres. Takes 2 mins to try and sit down!!!

They have such things as CCTV both covering the outside AND the reception area!!

If you are going to try and be deceitful, do a better job at it - well that's what ATOS tell me.

fogartyblue. wrote: »

On what specific grounds are you suggesting that you believe that you should be in the Support Group?

Do you feel that you are categorised at the same level of inability to work as would say a terminally ill person would be or one that is suffering from a painful life threatening condition?

From what I have read in your post, I would say that you have been really lucky to get in the Work Group!

Please excuse me if I have taken your posts the wrong way, after all it is quite possible on a forum to misunderstand somebody's meaning. But from what you have written you seem to be suggesting that there is nothing (or not a lot) wrong with me and that I am somewhat swinging the lead. If that is what you are suggesting, then nothing could be further from the truth!

Thank you for the information with regards to the likely hood of them watching me/cctv - I wasn't aware of that. But they would not have seen me acting in any manor that would have differed from how I normally act, i.e a person that has a great deal of pain!

If I have taken your comments the wrong way, I do apologise, but if not they are of no help to me so why waste your time and mine by commenting.

kathie1101

tomla wrote: »

Stick to the facts, don't compare their assessment to a youtube video. Just stick to the fact that they did not asses your HIP (from what you say this is stated in their report) and then they state it was normal.

Do not make too much of someone judging you on these forums, if you want to appeal it then do but being in the WRAG may actually suit you better if you are looking to return to work at some point.

tomla wrote: »

You may find it interesting to actually know the range of disability that defines someone being in the Support Group, it is for people who don't have a great prospect of getting or returning to work in the longer term.

Your views may offend the group you think your are defending by comparing what you believe to be insignificant disabilities to life threatening illnesses.

As you were unable to help the person who posted the question perhaps an attack on them was best left not written.

Thank you very much for your reply, it is very helpful. I have my first interview thing at the job centre this week, not really sure what to expect from it.

HB58

tomla wrote: »

You may find it interesting to actually know the range of disability that defines someone being in the Support Group, it is for people who don't have a great prospect of getting or returning to work in the longer term.
QUOTE]

It would be nice if this were the case, and it is what the government would have us believe. However there is nothing relating to duration of condition or the likelihood of returning to work in the support group descriptors. There are many people in the WRAG who have no prospect of returning to work or who, in fact, are suffering from progressive conditions.

OP, if you wish to appeal to be put into the support group you should look up the support group criteria and show how you meet them.

fogartyblue.

kathie1101 wrote: »

Please excuse me if I have taken your posts the wrong way, after all it is quite possible on a forum to misunderstand somebody's meaning. But from what you have written you seem to be suggesting that there is nothing (or not a lot) wrong with me and that I am somewhat swinging the lead. If that is what you are suggesting, then nothing could be further from the truth!

Thank you for the information with regards to the likely hood of them watching me/cctv - I wasn't aware of that. But they would not have seen me acting in any manor that would have differed from how I normally act, i.e a person that has a great deal of pain!

If I have taken your comments the wrong way, I do apologise, but if not they are of no help to me so why waste your time and mine by commenting.

Sorry, but yes you have taken the posts out of context.

You will see that I have written parts of it in italics, which has nothing to do with you personally, but a tongue in cheek comment about how SOME claimants forget that they are being observed as soon as they are within camera range which could well be on a public footpath 1/4 mile away!!

Sorry if I have offended you, it was NOT the intention.

fogartyblue.

HB58 wrote: »

tomla wrote: »

You may find it interesting to actually know the range of disability that defines someone being in the Support Group, it is for people who don't have a great prospect of getting or returning to work in the longer term.
QUOTE]

It would be nice if this were the case, and it is what the government would have us believe. However there is nothing relating to duration of condition or the likelihood of returning to work in the support group descriptors. There are many people in the WRAG who have no prospect of returning to work or who, in fact, are suffering from progressive conditions.

OP, if you wish to appeal to be put into the support group you should look up the support group criteria and show how you meet them.

I agree with you entirely.

Support Group, it is for people who don't have a great prospect of getting or returning to work in the longer term

It would be nice to know that that is the case, but I too can't find that descriptor anywhere in the conditions attached to the Support Group.

Personally from what the poster has said, there is nothing there that leads me to think that the Support Group is in any way relevant.

As regards appealing on the grounds that the hip's weren't tested is probably a non starter. The assessor would not only have the CCTV footage to watch, but also would have seen at first hand how the poster walked into the assessment room.