VCS parking ticket in disabled bay

Eriko_2

We parked in a private car park which had a parking bay marked as a disabled badge holder space on 11/03/2012 with our car displaying a valid disabled parking permit correctly

Returned to our car an hour and a half later to find a parking ticket

Found Car park attendant (managed to remain calm) who said that we needed to buy a ticket as it was exclusively a pay and display car park!

I appealed enclosing photos showing the clearly marked up disabled parking bay and they rejected the appeal saying that had I read the small signs around the car park displaying their terms and conditions I would have realised that it was not disabled exempt and therefore the penalty charge notice stood and I now had to pay £80 before April 5th and that the penalty charge would rise to £120 if not and I would be possibly subject to court proceedings. What would you advise?

I have read the other similar posts but was not sure if this situation has been covered - I was shocked to find a ticket in a marked disabled bay with disabled badge correctly displayed within the private car park! I have heard of PPCs alleging they protect disabled bays but not one where they pursue disabled badge holders! :mad: Thanks in advance for any help.

give_them_FA

What it appears they are saying is that disabled badge holders pay like everyone else, unlike many councils who let you park for free.

However, no way should you pay their totally ridiculous charge, because they cannot enforce it.

You can either stop wasting your time appealing to a better nature they don't have, and ignore them until they give up and go away; (recommended)

Or, if you want to cover yourself, offer them a cheque for what you would have paid had you bought a ticket, covering it with a letter stating that is all they are entitled to and it is in full and final settlement of all liability to them; and that you consider the matter closed.

The latter course of action permits you to sue them if they send you any threatening correspondence trying to get their unfounded "fine".
That is what I would do; but it is up to you!

Whatever you do don't pay what they are asking for!!

funkycoldribena

Eriko wrote: »

I have read the other similar posts but was not sure if this situation has been covered

Only about 3600 times.
Ignore,its hamster bedding.

Stephen_Leak

Legally, the key point is that only councils and the police can impose a fine or penalty. Private car park owners and PPCs can no more impose a fine or penalty than you or I.

I lend you £10, and you promise to pay it back in a week. You don't. I ring you to remind you. I can legally add the cost of the call to the debt. What I can't do is fine you an extra £90 and I certainly can't threaten to send round "the boys".

Therefore, as it was a pay car park, you do owe the owner the fee. They have every right to levy one, as long as it's reasonable, displayed, etc. We cannot condone not paying, whether by accident or design.

So, as GTFA says, paying the parking fee in "full and final settlement" is a good idea. It also gives you the moral high ground.

It won't make any difference to the PPC, who will still send you a series of ever-nastier poison pen letters. As above, ignore them.

However, it will make a difference, when you use these letters (sorry hamsters) to sue both the car park owner and PPC for harrassment. Judges like to see this sort of thing.

I really do recommend doing this. It will make the car park owner think twice about his policy of charging disabled drivers and the wisdom of using a PPC.

pogofish

Eriko wrote: »

with our car displaying a valid disabled parking permit correctly

I have heard of PPCs alleging they protect disabled bays but not one where they pursue disabled badge holders! :mad:

And what kind of valid permit would this be exactly?

Because the Blue Badge Scheme does not apply in private car parks! This is made quite clear in the handbook that comes with your badge and on the websites of every issuing authority.

It is the Equality Act that applies here and whilst that does not preclude a charge for parking, it does require them to give you the time and any other reasonable adjustment needed to complete your business. This applies to all people who are disabled under the act, BB or any other kind of permit notwithstanding.

However, if you browse a bit more here, you will find plenty of threads that suggest the PPC do consider disabled drivers as particularly soft targets and ticket them disproportionately. It would actually help a lot if disabled drivers were aware of the abuse of "authority" and complete lack of any legal basis for these spaces.

If you do anything, I would agree with the advice above and offer the operator concerned the parking fee but do not enter into correspondence with the PPC and put a bomb under the store/operator concerned about their failure in legal responsibility.

chrissyboi

pogofish wrote: »

And what kind of valid permit would this be exactly?

Because the Blue Badge Scheme does not apply in private car parks! This is made quite clear in the handbook that comes with your badge and on the websites of every issuing authority.

Eriko wrote: »

We parked in a private car park which had a parking bay marked as a disabled badge holder space on 11/03/2012 with our car displaying a valid disabled parking permit correctly

I have heard of PPCs alleging they protect disabled bays but not one where they pursue disabled badge holders! Thanks in advance for any help.

I think that what perhaps Eriko was referring to was new legislation designed to enforce protection of disabled parking bays - ie - to impose sanctions on people using them who have no right to use them. The Local Authority is responsible for enforcement; as part of the process consultation with private car park operators was sought to ensure that the rules would apply to private bays as well as bays operated by the LA - with private operators indicating that they would protect the disabled bays to ensure they were not being abused.

pogofish

chrissyboi wrote: »

I think that what perhaps Eriko was referring to was new legislation designed to enforce protection of disabled parking bays - ie - to impose sanctions on people using them who have no right to use them. The Local Authority is responsible for enforcement; as part of the process consultation with private car park operators was sought to ensure that the rules would apply to private bays as well as bays operated by the LA - with private operators indicating that they would protect the disabled bays to ensure they were not being abused.

What legislation?

There is nothing of the sort in force in England and Wales just now and currently no provision to extend local authority enforcement on to private property, whilst despite its being fast-tracked into force, the actual uptake of the Scottish DPPPA has been utterlly wofeul. So the situation remains exactly the same as before the act in the vast majority of Scottish private "disabled" spaces. In fact the only instances I've yet seen of DPPPA-compliant authorisation have all been in the context of private residential parking - and there ain't many of them!.

And as the OP has a ticket form a PPC, it is quite clear that there is no legit enforcement here at all.

Coupon-mad

chrissyboi wrote: »

I think that what perhaps Eriko was referring to was new legislation designed to enforce protection of disabled parking bays - ie - to impose sanctions on people using them who have no right to use them. The Local Authority is responsible for enforcement; as part of the process consultation with private car park operators was sought to ensure that the rules would apply to private bays as well as bays operated by the LA - with private operators indicating that they would protect the disabled bays to ensure they were not being abused.

We do not want disabled bays to be abused any more than you do.

But what you are talking about was only introduced as a possibility in Scotland and to my knowledge, retailers/car park owners have not taken advantage of it.

This 'new legislation' doesn't apply in England and Wales.

A disabled person (driver or passenger) is potentially entitled for the vehicle they are using to be parked in a 'disabled bay' when they use a retailer or service, including at residential blocks of flats, entertainment and shopping complexes, stations, airports, anywhere that PPCs lurk. By law, disabled people have that entitlement under the Equality Act 2010 if they meet the definition of disability and need the space by virtue of whatever their disability is.

They do NOT need to show any permit or Blue Badge any more than they would need to jump up & down yelling 'look at me, I'm disabled so I can use this bay'.

Yes - it makes it difficult for retailers and landowners to know who can park there. Tough. That's the law and it's there for the very good reason of protecting all 'eligible disabled' service users. The Equality Act can't segregate the provision for a certain 'permit status only', as it needs to be a wide enough piece of legislation so that it applies to very diverse needs.

It may seem strange/unfair on first reading but it's because people qualify under the Act who would not have a Blue Badge.

An obvious example would be someone diagnosed with a long term debilitating condition such as cancer, diabetes, asthma, chronic back, bone, blood or organ conditions, ME, irritable bowel syndrome - basically any long term condition that 'could' mean they might need a bay close to a store when shopping.

And none of the conditions I have used as an example are visible disabilities - deliberately so because they do NOT have to be.

AlexisV

chrissyboi wrote: »

I think that what perhaps Eriko was referring to was new legislation designed to enforce protection of disabled parking bays - ie - to impose sanctions on people using them who have no right to use them. The Local Authority is responsible for enforcement; as part of the process consultation with private car park operators was sought to ensure that the rules would apply to private bays as well as bays operated by the LA - with private operators indicating that they would protect the disabled bays to ensure they were not being abused.

As far as I'm aware the legislation in effect hires out the spaces to the local council and require off street parking place orders to enable council CEO's to issued PCN's.

Whether a private company wants to slap an invoice of their own under the opposite windscreen wiper is a matter for them.

Eriko_2

2 questions

1. Just to check even though a prominently displayed "Disabled Parking" logo was painted on the ground in the space I parked in, I should offer to pay the appropriate fee for the time I parked.

2. What is the best way for me to sue the PPC / owner?

give_them_FA

Eriko,

I think the point here is that the ticket was issued, not for you parking in a disabled bay as such, but for not paying to park. It is not necessarily free to park if you have a blue badge!

To lay the foundation to sue them, you need to do what I suggest in my post #2. Work out what you should have paid for your hour and a half's parking, and offer them a cheque for that amount, with a covering letter like I describe. That is ALL they are entitled to under contract law and by giving it to them you have covered yourself.

You then simply wait to see if they embark upon the chain of threatening letters demanding their unenforceable penalty. When you have four or five you can send them, and the car park owner, a letter before action claiming damages.

When you get to that stage, come back for help. There is nothing to sue about unless and until they send the harassment letters so you have to be patient.