Selling a Gold bar

sabretoothtigger

Sell when you need the money. Its not a question of gold but when do you really want to buy Sterling currency.
Just after the election was last when it was last particularly cheap.

I think the fall in gold price is near done personally but in any case its not yet off track from every other year its carried on rising



http://i.imgur.com/NjmRD.jpg

atush

I think we need to link to this thread when the metal bugs insist that gold is a 'liquid' asset as it clearly isn't as it takes time, and effort to tun it into something you can use to pay for things.

It is clearly NOT liquid in this case.

DiggerUK

atush wrote: »

.........It is clearly NOT liquid in this case.

Nobody seems to have noticed that the author of the thread suddenly spotted that it was a kilo bar of gold, not 100gms.
One is the size of a four finger KitKat, the other is the size of a custard cream.
Personally I think it is a fantasy poster for one simple reason, you would never get such clear cut advice off HMRC about CGT liability on the phone, they would just tell you to follow the rules, and if in doubt put the details in writing to them, or on a return.
Selling a kilo bar would realise well in excess of £30,000, and take you over the anuall CGT threshold for a couple anyway.

As to physical gold not being liquid, I can tell you from experience that selling bars that size is a matter of getting a price off the dealer, delivering the bar to the dealer, and getting your money in the bank.
We were selling bars, and then purchasing sovereigns to avoid any future CGT liabilities; I can asure you that the whole process was over in less than a week.
Paper gold in ETF's can be cashed in whilst you make a cup of tea.

As an aside, it does seem a good time to consider buying, not selling.
..._

Aegis

DiggerUK wrote: »

Nobody seems to have noticed that the author of the thread suddenly spotted that it was a kilo bar of gold, not 100gms.
One is the size of a four finger KitKat, the other is the size of a custard cream.
Personally I think it is a fantasy poster for one simple reason, you would never get such clear cut advice off HMRC about CGT liability on the phone, they would just tell you to follow the rules, and if in doubt put the details in writing to them, or on a return.
Selling a kilo bar would realise well in excess of £30,000, and take you over the anuall CGT threshold for a couple anyway.

Not if it's received as a gift and immediately disposed of. In that case, the recipient is highly unlikely to be liable to capital gains tax. For the donors it's another matter entirely, but they're in France and are therefore subject to French taxation, not UK.

DiggerUK

Aegis wrote: »

Not if it's received as a gift and immediately disposed of. In that case, the recipient is highly unlikely to be liable to capital gains tax. For the donors it's another matter entirely, but they're in France and are therefore subject to French taxation, not UK.

Honest guv, me relative abroad giv it to me as a gift.

Pull the other one. HMRC would turn you over in a flash. They know full well that a bar bought pre 2005 would be CGT liable if it was sold today.

Your time spent gaining a Masters Degree was wasted.
..._

Aegis

DiggerUK wrote: »

Honest guv, me relative abroad giv it to me as a gift.

Pull the other one. HMRC would turn you over in a flash. They know full well that a bar bought pre 2005 would be CGT liable if it was sold today.

Your time spent gaining a Masters Degree was wasted.
..._

Really? Here's how it works.

• Fact 1: The asset is currently owned by a UK non-resident individual, therefore it is not liable to UK capital gains tax on that asset's disposal
• Fact 2: A gift received in the UK is deemed to have been acquired at the acquisition cost if the transaction was "at arm's length" or at the market value on the date of the transaction if the asset was gifted or sold at a deep discount
• Fact 3: An asset worth around £30,000 sold shortly after acquisition will almost certainly not incur a capital gains tax bill, therefore:
• Fact 4: All taxes incurred will be under the French taxation system, not the UK one, and:
• Fact 5: all that's needed to satisfy HMRC is meticulous record keeping of the various transactions

Which of these do you disagree with?


I'd expect an apology from someone with even the slightest bit of courtesy, but we've spoken in the past and you don't appear to be capable of that.

DiggerUK

Aegis wrote: »

.........I'd expect an apology from someone with even the slightest bit of courtesy, but we've spoken in the past and you don't appear to be capable of that.

Your record on manners matches quite a few others, and is not a subject you should raise here.
In your first post you warned of CGT, and now seem to be not warning of CGT.
Post 12 also suggested selling in France to avoid payments.
Fact remains that unless you chance your arm that HMRC won't find out if you sell here, then they will want their CGT paying. So stop dancing round your handbag, what you said is on the record in an unedited post.
..._

antrobus

Aegis wrote: »

Really? Here's how it works.

• Fact 1: The asset is currently owned by a UK non-resident individual, therefore it is not liable to UK capital gains tax on that asset's disposal ...

Well the gold bar is in France. It might be a reasonable assumption that the grand-parents are there as well, but whether they are UK non residents would be something else. So I wouldn't take this as a fact without further inquiry.

amiehall

Can I just say, for the love of God, PLEASE don't pack £30k worth of gold into your luggage and check it in. Why can't you leave it stored where it currently is? I'm sure the staff there would also assist you in selling it if that's what you want to do. Carting around a 1kg gold bar sounds like much more hassle than it's worth.

George_Michael

DiggerUK wrote: »

In your first post you warned of CGT, and now seem to be not warning of CGT.
..._

But you seem to have "forgotten" that in the post warning of possible CGT liabilities, this was clearly referring to the liabilities of the OP's grandparents and not the OP and Aegis clearly stated that they were of the opinion that the OP wouldn't have any UK tak liabilities due to being gifted then selling the gold bar.

therefore they will have to work out the market value and pay tax if they have made other disposals which take them outside the annual exemption.

If you sell soon after receiving the bar, it's unlikely to result in any tax as the acquisition cost will be deemed to be the market price on the date of the gift.

Originally Posted by DiggerUK
Fact remains that unless you chance your arm that HMRC won't find out if you sell here, then they will want their CGT paying

Totally incorrect.
The fact remains that HMRC won't be due any tax providing that the profit made on the gold bar doesn't take the OP over the £10.600 CGT limit.
The important fact you seem to be missing is that this profit is calculated from the price difference between the date when the OP aquired the gold and the date when they sold it.

Why is it that some people seem to find it impossible to admit that they may be mistaken when it comes to discussing certain topics, money being one of them?