S21 Can the landlord keep the deposit?

GDB2222

DVardysShadow wrote: »

I am guessing jjl is making the point that it is a notice requiring possession after a certain date rather than terminating the tenancy on a certain date.

I think that this particular s21 is somewhat moot as it appears to finish within the assured term. Tenant has missed a trick in that, having found another place, she should have presented the LL with the option of immediate termination by mutual agreement or continuing to the end of the assured term.

I am afraid that I thought the point of this forum is to help the people asking questions. All the experienced posters here know how the section 21 notice works, and all the pedantic point-scoring simply obscures the real issues that the OP is asking. (JJL please note.)

I find it hard to believe that the tenancy commenced in February and the S21 notice was given a couple of weeks later, to expire during the fixed term. That just does not make sense to me.

GDB2222

I probably ought to have put a smiley in.

There you go.

jjlandlord

GDB2222 wrote: »

I am afraid that I thought the point of this forum is to help the people asking questions. All the experienced posters here know how the section 21 notice works, and all the pedantic point-scoring simply obscures the real issues that the OP is asking. (JJL please note.)

Ah, I caught you at a bad time of the month, sorry.
That said there's no question of "point-scoring", but just to point obviously erroneous statements. You may know how a s.21 notice work (but then if you do, why not sum it up correctly?) but I'm sure many people seeking help here, or just reading through the comments, do not. If they start to get the idea that it ends the tenancy, this will certainly not help them.
No need to argue and go OT about this.

girl_withno_name

Just to point out that I've been reading this thread and am probably more confused about what a section 21 notice is/does/means than when I started!!

jjlandlord

girl_withno_name wrote: »

Just to point out that I've been reading this thread and am probably more confused about what a section 21 notice is/does/means than when I started!!

A valid notice just entitles the landlord to start court proceedings in order to obtain a court order for possession.
That's all. It has not affect on the tenancy whatsoever.

G_M

Apart from clarifying what a S21 is/is not/does/etc (now done I hope?) there is little to add till OP gives more info, particularly start date and Term or End date of the Fixed Term.

I suspect OP has been premature in finding somewhere.

I also suspect the LL was trying to serve a so-called sward of Dameclese S21: intended not to end the tenancy but to provide the LL with that option in/after August (or whenever) if required at that time.

A chat with the LL might enlighten his intentions, as well as his willingness to an Early Surrender with full deposit return assuming that is what he wants, and that is what the OP now wants.

franklee

When did the tenancy originally start? Is the landlord using a break clause? If your friend has renewed the tenancy in the past then overall she may have been there before February 2012 (August - six months).

I'd suggest negotiating with the landlord either he lets her go at a mutually convenient date, maybe meeting halfway between the two points of view, or your friend lets this new property go, stays put, and the landlord will have to wait for possession till he's jumped through all the necessary legal hoops which would be a significant delay.

Your friend needs to get confirmation in writing if agreement is reached that makes clear when her rent liability will end.

Next time remember a tenant is bound to pay rent till the end of the fixed term unless either side are able to use a break clause to serve notice.

jjlandlord

G_M wrote: »

Apart from clarifying what a S21 is/is not/does/etc (now done I hope?)

...

I also suspect the LL was trying to serve a so-called sward of Dameclese S21: intended not to end the tenancy but to provide the LL with that option in/after August (or whenever) if required at that time.

Arggh!

Going back to OP's question: If fixed term AST expires in August, tenant is bound by the contract until then unless an agreement to surrender the tenancy is reached.
From the description it seems that in effect LL agrees to bring the tenancy to an end in April. T should get that in writing.
Unless LL does something incompatible with the tenancy continuing after T leaves (providing he does move to the new place he found), I'm afraid rent will be due until at least end of April.

reecy_2

Thanks for all the info. My friend has lived there for 3 years, she had just signed for another 6 months. The LL then split with his other half so wanted to moved back in asap as he had nowhere to live.

I've just told her she needs to give him his one month notice regardless of the S21 - we didn't have any idea he could theoretically come after her for the remaining lease period until we read this thread. Scary.

So the answer regarding the deposit is he can keep it then? He's saying that because shes moving out before the end of the 2 month notice (end of April), hes going to keep the deposit as the rent she should have paid him.

Yorkie1

The LL wants his cake and to eat it.

If she has signed another 6 months contract, then the LL cannot enforce the s.21 until the end of the 6 months unless the T agrees an earlier date.

Likewise, the T is bound to pay rent until the end of August unless the LL agrees an earlier date.

If your friend hasn't yet signed for the new property, the LL's need to get the property back is greater than hers to vacate. In those circumstances I'd be minded to call the LL's bluff and say that she's staying put until the end of the 6 months because she cannot afford to pay 2 lots of rent concurrently. If the LL wants her out sooner than August, LL will have to agree a date convenient to her.