What say do current tenants have in new tenant?

thegirlintheattic

Why not just ask the girls if they have someone in mind for the room or want to find someone?

Say to them that otherwise you not be able to pay the rent and so the LL will come after them for it.

greensalad

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Hmm. I think that the flatmates win here on the right to quiet enjoyment - they can reject the new tenant.

But if they do reject a sublet .... I think they put themselves in a weaker position for a counterclaim for Joint and Several contributions to the rent if they are minded to follow this up ....

OP, in your position, I would be minded to hang on to the keys and pay rent until the Landlord releases you in writing. This leaves open the possibility of visiting with a good reliable witness [parent? over 25 yrs old friend?] in 2 or 3 weeks time and looking for evidence of your space being taken. Don't be afraid to barge into your room at 0230 on a Tuesday morning with your witness and turn the light on. You may disturb someone who makes some revelation ["What the hell are you doing in [B]my[/B] room"] which will amke it loads easier to provide witness statements which support a claim against your current flatmates for a claim for your alternative accommodation. Make sure you have copies of tenancy agreements and home addresses for the other tenants - or at least those who are more likely not to support the ringleader of all of this - these girls are more likely to cave and apply pressure on the ringleaders if you sue them.

So are they legally allowed to reject a subtenant? I thought that other housemates had no real right to reject any replacement, the only issue is that you can't get them to physically sign a new agreement (which means, in practice, they can reject a tenant as they can just say 'Well I won't sign') but in this position the current tenants don't have to sign anything. It'd only be me and the subtenant. Can they reject anyone and on what grounds/how?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Hmm. I think that the flatmates win here on the right to quiet enjoyment - they can reject the new tenant.

Very much debatable if that's true so long as the sub-tenant is in practical terms little different to the original tenant in terms of usage of facilities and behavior around the house, but in any case I think it's immensely doubtful they'll bother with the time, expense and effort to go to court and overturn a written consent to sub-let.

But if they do reject a sublet .... I think they put themselves in a weaker position for a counterclaim for Joint and Several contributions to the rent if they are minded to follow this up ....

I agree with that point.

OP, I think sub-letting is your ace up the sleeve.

If I were you I would do the following:

- Get consent to sublet

- Contact the girls and advise them you'll be showing the flat on Wednesday unless they provide you with an alternative suitable date to show within a few days.

- Proceed with showing the flat on Wednesday or the alternate date, and advise the other girls they can meet the prospective new girl then.

- On the day of showing first confirm the viewing party actually wants the room, and then advise the flatmates that you'd like their input now. If it's positive then proceed with the lease substitution instead of a sublet.

- If it's negative or they play games, then advise them that as you already have written consent from the landlord to sublet the room as per the terms of the lease, you'll be proceeding anyway unless they want to allow you off the lease and for them to take over the responsibility.

As I said earlier, if you can get consent to sub-let, then in practical terms there is very little they can do to stop you. Be reasonable, as per the above, but if they want to play games then just get it sub-let and move on with your life.

G_M

I pose a legal question related to the subletting idea:

Even if the LL permits a sublet by 'The Tenant' in accordance with the clause quoted, who is 'The Tenant'? Surely it is the 4 girls, acting as a single legal entity. So once again they 3 can refuse the applicant sub-tenant?

And if the idea does go ahead, who is the sub-tenants landlord? Who receives the rent? Again, surely it is 'The Tenant'? Whi is that? Does the OP wish to become a landlord (with all the responsibilities of a landlord) in a property where she does not live and where there are likely to be issues? Will the other 3 wish to be landlords?

I still believe my suggestion (post 17) bears consideration.

Though I also support DVardy's suggestion in post 31. If they sublet your room they'll be quids in (you're paying rent to LL; Newbie paying rent to them - laugh all the way to the bank!). But they'll be in breach of the subletting clause.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

greensalad wrote: »

So are they legally allowed to reject a subtenant? I thought that other housemates had no real right to reject any replacement, the only issue is that you can't get them to physically sign a new agreement (which means, in practice, they can reject a tenant as they can just say 'Well I won't sign') but in this position the current tenants don't have to sign anything. It'd only be me and the subtenant. Can they reject anyone and on what grounds/how?

Very, very doubtful they could legally reject a sub-tenant.

The only potential ground I can see is if the sub-tenant was substantially difficult to live with, of a different sex, a couple, engaged in serious anti-social behavior, etc. In which case there might be a claim that could be made under the "right to quiet enjoyment".

But even then chances are the tenancy would end before they could establish a pattern, take legal advice, and get it before a court.

For someone of the same sex and a similar age as you, also a student, that behaved in a normal way around the house, it would be almost impossible for them to successfully challenge.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

G_M wrote: »

I pose a legal question related to the subletting idea:

Even if the LL permits a sublet by 'The Tenant' in accordance with the clause quoted, who is 'The Tenant'? Surely it is the 4 girls, acting as a single legal entity. So once again they 3 can refuse the applicant sub-tenant?

A potentially grey area which would require specialist legal advice to establish for certain, but if a consent to sub-let is granted, I'd think it's very doubtful any court would overturn.

The original lease allows sub-letting in part with landlord consent. If landlord consent is granted, I doubt the other girls have much of a leg to stand on.

And in practical terms, it's extremely doubtful that 3 students with a lease expiring in a few months would either figure out the legal intricacies or spend the money to pursue legal action.

And if the idea does go ahead, who is the sub-tenants landlord? Who receives the rent? Again, surely it is 'The Tenant'? Whi is that? Does the OP wish to become a landlord (with all the responsibilities of a landlord) in a property where she does not live and where there are likely to be issues? Will the other 3 wish to be landlords?

The current landlord would retain all his responsibilities under the law to maintain the property.

In practical terms the only difference is that the liability for unpaid rent will remain with the OP if the sub-tenant does not pay.

G_M

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The current landlord would retain all his responsibilities under the law to maintain the property.

In practical terms the only difference is that the liability for unpaid rent will remain with the OP if the sub-tenant does not pay.

unless the 3 delightful girls put pressure on the sub-tenant to pay them, and the rent does not get passed to either the LL or the OP.....

DVardysShadow

G_M wrote: »

I pose a legal question related to the subletting idea:

Even if the LL permits a sublet by 'The Tenant' in accordance with the clause quoted, who is 'The Tenant'? Surely it is the 4 girls, acting as a single legal entity. So once again they 3 can refuse the applicant sub-tenant?

I believe this is correct. The new sublet tenant is not a party to the current tenancy - it would be a substantial breach of the tenancy agreement on the part of the landlord, to impose a sublet tenant - going in the direction of harassment I would think.

The existing tenants would be perfectly within their rights to throw the sublet tenant into the street, baggage and all - calling the police and claiming trespass. As I see it. And based on the idea that the 4 existing tenants have come together to create an ad hoc corporation for the sole purpose of taking this particular tenancy, on an exclusive basis.

Even if our OP sublet on her own account, wiothout the agreement of the others and the Landlord, the sublet tenant could find herself returned to the street quite rapidly.

jjlandlord

Considering the tenant is indeed the current 4 girls, if OP were to move out and 'sublet' her room, they (all of them) would actually take on a lodger. In practice, this would require the consent of the 4 current girls.

If tenancy is a fixed term tenancy:
- If OP leaves and LL agrees to a replacement, the current tenant (the 4 current girls) would have to assign the tenancy to the new tenant (the 3 remaining girls + the replacement). This would require the consent of the remaining girls.

- Other option is to agree to surrender the tenancy, which would also require the consent of the landlord and of the tenant (the 4 current girls).

If tenancy is periodic, then OP can just serve notice and end the tenancy for everyone.

Sambucus_Nigra

Dear landlord.

It seems that the situation is frustrated. How do you propose we get you a new tenant under the circumstances; as I cannot afford two rents?

These are the options...[see above for all options].