More Heat Less Power

mjr600

Whilst I accept the weather over the past ten years has been a bit warmer than normal I cannot accept that it is man man. Frankly and without wishing to upset people I find it a little arrogant that mankind believes it has the 'power' to alter the global ecosystem for thousands of years to come.

I'm more in favour of the suggestion that the Earth moves in cycles based on interaction from the sun, volcanic activity and shifting of the earths axis. Whilst local areas may be impacted by pollution on a short term scale 10-20 yrs (the Earth is Billions more remember ) everything will end up being recycled when, due to erosion and the movement of continental plates it is once again magma before being recreated somewhere else as a nice piece of land.

Afraid I also don't hold with those people who fear for the loss of Polynesian and Micronesian Islands if the sea levels rise. Why ? Well did those people intent on reducing their carbon footprint to save these places shout as loudly when the Hutus hacked 800,000 Tutsis to death in 1994. I guess not, its not trendy you see. Likewise, the many other ethnic cleansings and racial exterminations which have appeared on the news for many years. Some people are more concerned with planting a tree after flying to Florida than helping a child whose parents were executed in Bosnia.

I sincerely apologise if I have upset you, it has not been my intention. I fully support using less energy, recycling, composting and not wasting what we have. Excess is not not good in any aspect of life, I just think we need balance.

The title of my thread 'More Heat Less Power' is simple, if indeed it is getting warmer does that not mean less energy will be used. Heating in colder countries will not be required (air con in hotter places will increase) will we not be able to grow crops currently flown thousands of miles to our supermarkets.

When printed solar sheets are commonplace thanks to Google and Nanosolar, maybe free energy thanks to Steorn is available we won't be burning coal and gas for our electricity.

In short, won't it be better when its warmer ?

cazrobinson

your summary is astonishing!

try watching 'An inconvienet truth' (sp?)
'Day after tommorrow' (fiction)
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0219-01.htm
http://www.earthwire.org/uk/
read: about the recent conference in Europe, where scientists all agreed that climate change is certainly due to humans destruction of the planet.

even Mr George Bush has apealing for americans to reduce the amount of oil they use.

if we have enormous storms, windy and damaging weather, scorching sunlight and contaminated water - estimate the amount of energy needed to provide the basic standard of living.

In short, famine and disease will be refife if the planet is warmer!

Caz

Plus more wars, will have to pay more for resources, the ramifications are endless!!

Cardew

cazrobinson wrote:

your summary is astonishing!

try watching 'An inconvienet truth' (sp?)
'Day after tommorrow' (fiction)
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0219-01.htm
http://www.earthwire.org/uk/
read: about the recent conference in Europe, where scientists all agreed that climate change is certainly due to humans destruction of the planet.

even Mr George Bush has apealing for americans to reduce the amount of oil they use.

if we have enormous storms, windy and damaging weather, scorching sunlight and contaminated water - estimate the amount of energy needed to provide the basic standard of living.

In short, famine and disease will be refife if the planet is warmer!

Caz

Plus more wars, will have to pay more for resources, the ramifications are endless!!

Whilst I am not agreeing with the OP, have you read this thread?

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=346106

Al Gore is simply a politician, who has jumped on the environmental bandwaggon.

With respect the recent meeting in Europe did not make any statement in the terms you have implied. i.e. "Humans destruction of the planet"

They concluded that there was evidence that one of the factors in Global Warming was attributable to Man.

Their view is not unanimous in the scientific community.

I do not dissent from the view that it makes sense to preserve our resources and indeed the 'prophets of doom' might be right, so we have nothing to lose by cutting down on emissions.

mjr600

Caz

Thank you for reply.

I would simply ask you to question what you watch, hear and read.

Climate change is approaching the levels of the religion, non-believers or those who question are pilloried.

Would you question a Vicar, Priest or Iman on the validity of their deity when they have little but hand me down rewritten stories and old papyrus to indicate that there is an all knowing being responsible for the creation of mankind and the universe. Billions of people follow such religions, does belief mean they are correct.

A perfect recent example of the lack of questioning when attributed to environmental impact is the DiHydrogen MonOxide scandal.

If I said DiHydrogen MonOxide is a substance which is linked to the following..

* Also called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain;
* Contributes to the greenhouse effect;
* Contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape;
* Accelerates corrosion and breakdown of electrical equipment;
* Excessive ingestion may cause various unpleasant effects;
* Prolonged contact with its solid form results in severe tissue damage;
* Inhalation, even in small quantities, may cause death;
* Its gaseous form may cause severe burns;
* It has been found in the tumors of terminal cancer patients;
* Withdrawal by those addicted to the substance causes certain death within 168 hours;

Despite the danger, DHMO is often used:

* Used in many forms of cruel animal research;
* The US Navy has a secret distribution network for DHMO;
* Lakes and rivers all over the world are contaminated with DHMO;
* In the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical;
* As an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products;
* Known to be a component of a number of cancer-causing agents
(thanks wiki)

Would you agree that such a substance should be outlawed ?

Thousands believe it should be banned, they have signed petitions online and in person. They never asked what it was.

Its Water, DiHydrogen MonOxide, H20.

Do not walk blindly, question, who, what, why, where, when, how.

Make up you own mind, do not allow others to make it for you.

Cardew

mjr600 wrote:

Caz


I would simply ask you to question what you watch, hear and read.

Climate change is approaching the levels of the religion, non-believers or those who question are pilloried.

Make up you own mind, do not allow others to make it for you.

Whilst I agree wholeheartedly about the Climate change being elevated to religious status, how can any layman possibly make up his mind on this issue?

Nobody, but nobody, has definitively assessed the cause or quantified the effect of global warming; let alone how much man has contributed.

All we can do is believe(or 'have faith' might be more appropriate) in one side of the argument, or be 'agnostic' on the issue. At the moment there ain't no doubt that the 'prophets of doom' are winning the publicity battle hands down!!

cazrobinson

you do not need belief to know that two bags of rubbish going into the ground to be buried is worse than one.

you do not need faith to know that using energy at current rates is unsustainable and nuclear is NOT an option (burying hazourdos waste is never a vote winner).

you do not need a god/iman/priest/vicar to realise that clean water is the source of good living standards, better health, and better for family life.

convince me that all these things DON'T need to be tackled.

i'm glad that there are websites like this for discussion, but the time for talking is over. make the world better by reduce, re-use, recycle, for your health your wealth and your children's.

: )

Caz

Appologies for my bad spelling, due to my 70's education i'm afraid!

Cardew

cazrobinson wrote:

you do not need belief to know that two bags of rubbish going into the ground to be buried is worse than one.

you do not need faith to know that using energy at current rates is unsustainable and nuclear is NOT an option (burying hazourdos waste is never a vote winner).

you do not need a god/iman/priest/vicar to realise that clean water is the source of good living standards, better health, and better for family life.

convince me that all these things DON'T need to be tackled.

i'm glad that there are websites like this for discussion, but the time for talking is over. make the world better by reduce, re-use, recycle, for your health your wealth and your children's.

: )

Caz

Appologies for my bad spelling, due to my 70's education i'm afraid!

Yet another statement of the obvious I am afraid. Apart from your opinion on the nuclear alternative, who would possibly dispute what you said. You will no doubt get lots of ‘thanks’.

While you are at it you might as well have written that ‘War is bad, disease is bad, starvation is bad, crime is bad – lets do something about it’; and you would have got more applause. Even more praise for being anti-nuclear – nasty stuff, makes bombs, Chernobyl etc.

Simplistic slogans are no substitute for discussion.

cazrobinson

what i hate is discussion in the political sense. how often have you heard "let me make it clear", "i understand what the opposition is saying but we are already making improvements". all that is fluff.

yes, let's have discussion/debate but not for it's own sake.

copy my text as much as you like, but you still haven't had any opinion to discuss on this issue. and saying "Simplistic slogans are no substitute for discussion." is a very sneering and patronizing thing to do!

the issue here by original poster is:

it hasn't been proved that global warming is generated by mankind.
and
so what is world is getting warmer, it can only be a good thing!

and I disagree with his synopsis.

have you any thoughts?

Caz

Cardew

cazrobinson wrote:

have you any thoughts?

Caz

See post #3

mjr600

I'm 100% with Cardew here.

Most of what you say is correct Caz, there is no point wasting what we have.

I have four compost bins full of garden and kitchen waste, a recycle bin full of paper, card, bottles etc. Not because I think that burying them will heat the world but because its a waste of resources.

As you say, I believe other, greater factors than little old man are responsible for our odd weather. If there is a period of prolonged warming then it means I'll be able to grow more food over a longer period in the garden. Two years ago I planted grapes which grow in cooler German and Russian climes in anticipation of fewer winter frosts and warmer summers.

That way I'll buy less from the supermarket, travel there fewer times etc

I just don't hold with the argument that man is responsible.

On the subject of Nuclear, I am a supporter, I believe we should follow the French example. They have 59 reactors and produce the majority of their electricity from this source.

cazrobinson

: )

okay