severely disabled mum in rehab unit

fogartyblue.

Mojisola wrote: »

I remember posting last year that the councils would be finding all sorts of ways to squeeze extra money from wherever they can but it's shocking to see it in action with older people who are in a vulnerable state.

I personally think that the councils work on the premise that the family home is an asset that should be sold to pay for continuing care not withstanding what the rules say.

By and large the older person is likely to be asset rich which the council see as a target to get at in any way possible.

As for being vulnerable, they would argue, as they have with me over mum, that if family members are able to look after them, then that is what should/must happen.

Personally I will be waiting to see how long it will take for the council to start possession proceedings once the available equity has been charged. Where mum will be then or what she will do is another matter.

The argument then in court will have to be over whether mum has the right to 50% of the house value even though she legally doesn't own any part of it. No doubt the council will contest it! If mum isn't with us at that stage, then I presume the Administrator (no wills have been made!) will have that job to do - which will probably be me.

It is strange that I thought mum's case was a one off, to find that it is happening to others is a total surprise.

Mojisola

I still think they are in the wrong by saying the family home is not your mother's primary residence. You could ask around the local solicitors and see which of them have a specialist older person's section.

Most will do a free first meeting to assess the problem.

When your father dies, your mother probably won't want to spend her last years in the house alone. Does she have to power to sell and downsize or are the council going to force her to remove her belongings and throw herself on the mercy of relatives or apply for a council house to live in?

fogartyblue.

Mojisola wrote: »

I still think they are in the wrong by saying the family home is not your mother's primary residence. You could ask around the local solicitors and see which of them have a specialist older person's section.

Most will do a free first meeting to assess the problem.

When your father dies, your mother probably won't want to spend her last years in the house alone. Does she have to power to sell and downsize or are the council going to force her to remove her belongings and throw herself on the mercy of relatives or apply for a council house to live in?

Yes I hink that is my next stop. Although I have no power to intervene in the case - it would have to be between my dad, which is now impossible, and the council. Mum has no legal standing as regards what happens to the house as she does not have any legal entitlement to it as a joint beneficial owner.
Advice at least would be helpful.

God forbid if that happened to dad, she would go to pieces. I could not see her ever wanting to live in it again, which is why I said that she would probably move in with us.

I don't know what the council will do. They currently have the intention to charge the property up to the hilt leaving dad with about £23000.

No she can't sell the house, it is not hers to sell, its dad's.

I presume that when and if dad goes and mum is still with us, the council will seek possession of the property to recover their costs. Although they have said, but not in writing, that mum would be able to stay as long as she wants - they won't make her homeless.

If she does move in with us, and an Administrator has to deal with his estate, the house will have to be sold anyhow to realise the asset to pay the council off. Either way it seems that mum is going to be out of the house with no money!

As it will be an intestate estate, things could get awkward as regards what does happen.

Ideally from my point of view, I would hope that 50% of the house should go straight to mum, or she be alllowed to sell it now. The council would kick up big time I would imagine if the asset they have control of is sold from under them and mum ends up with 1/2 its value in a property in her name that they couldn't get hold of. The council will resist that idea!
As for hoping that mum would get the whole house, because it should be exempted is a pipe dream. Anyhow that wouldn't happen as she would not be entitled to dad's estate as his wife, as there is simply no will in place. Intestacy rules will apply.

Very complicated, which to be honest is why I have kept my head down so far as all I can see if I put up a fight (providing I can get the power to act whilst dad is alive) is that the legal eagles will take their share as well.

Why oh why did mum tell them too much in the first place?

Having read other comments on this thread and the other, this type of thing is becoming more common despite what the rules say.
The councils are, as someone has already said, looking at everyway that they can rake in some money even if it is by devious means.

PS.

I have taken the following extract from a letter/form that came from the council after they made the decision about mum and dad's home:

However, for permanent residents the
value of the property will
be ignored where it is occupied by the following:-
The care home resident’s partner (who is not estranged or
divorced from them).
This disregard would cease and the property will be taken into account if
they were to die or move out

I have another letter from the council that says that mum

"has confirmed (in writing) that she will not be living in
the property having decided to move in with her sister for the
majority of the time."

Then a letter from me to the council having been asked to confirm her residency status.

......the evidence so far proves this to be the case in that for 2010 and
probably 2011, she spent more time with my aunt than she did in her
home....

....this scenario will continue for the forseeable future.

Mojisola

fogartyblue. wrote: »

As it will be an intestate estate, things could get awkward as regards what does happen.

As for hoping that mum would get the whole house, because it should be exempted is a pipe dream. Anyhow that wouldn't happen as she would not be entitled to dad's estate as his wife, as there is simply no will in place. Intestacy rules will apply.

Why do you think the intestacy rules would leave your mother with nothing?

https://www.youngandpearce.co.uk/intestrules.htm
"Married person with children
* Spouse gets everything up to *£250,000 & personal possessions.
* Anything remaining is divided into two:-
o Half to the children at 18 or earlier marriage.
o Half in trust during spouse's lifetime - he or she gets the income. On spouse's death this half goes to the children."

fogartyblue.

Mojisola wrote: »

Why do you think the intestacy rules would leave your mother with nothing?

www.youngandpearce.co.uk/intestrules.htm
"Married person with children
* Spouse gets everything up to *£250,000 & personal possessions.
* Anything remaining is divided into two:-
o Half to the children at 18 or earlier marriage.
o Half in trust during spouse's lifetime - he or she gets the income. On spouse's death this half goes to the children."

Thanks for that info, I didn't realise that mum would get up to £250,000 in any event. That would be more than 1/2 the value of their home with the other 1/2 going to the council if I can persuade them that mum does have a call on 50%.

I'll make an appointment with a solicitor and see what advice I can get.

Thanks once again.

fogartyblue.

Forgive me if the answer to this is obvious - I hardly ever deal with older
people
I’ve had a query from a social worker who has a client about to move into
self-funded nursing care. He has been in Local Authority funded residential care
for the last two years and so hasn’t been receiving his AA. Now the LA are
selling his house and are planning to recover two years worth of charges so
effectively, he will have been self-funded for the whole time. He didn’t enter
into a deferred payment arrangement or anything like that, and I’m usure of why
this is happening now. The LA have taken over his affairs because he doesn’t
have capacity. But my query is, is there any way of getting the AA back to cover
the two years?


Thanks

Just something that I have picked up from rightsnet.

I wasn't aware that the council can apply to take over somebody's affairs (like my father's) AND then sell his home to recover the care home fees.
I presume in this case there is no wife involved and he lived alone in his own house.

But it frightens me to think that the council could take over my dad's affairs as he is clearly not able to deal with them himself as well as the family home!