Gas Safety dispute

LeCoop

Hi

I need some advice from anyone with knowledge of Gas-Safe and their regulations, but first, I need to tell you a rather lengthy story.

I am on a British Gas Homecare plan and had a routine mtce on 15th Feb. After 10mins, the guy condemned my central heating boiler on the grounds that it was leaking fumes from the chassis, citing a broken spot-weld. Chassis no longer in stock, so boiler was immediately declared 'dangerous', disconnected on a freezing cold day and I was given two electric fan heaters to get by.

Within 2 hrs, I had a quote from BG (amazingly responsive) and then later a local gas-safe registered supplier arrived for an alternative quote ...except he didn't want to give me a quote because he saw nothing wrong with my boiler except for the 'forcing of a seam' in his opinion, to which he applied a thermal sealant, then closed up with pliers before re-connecting and testing, with 'no emissions'.

I then got myself not one but two CO detectors and ran the boiler for two weeks before reporting back to BG ...not a peep from either (one had a digital readout, a big fat zero)

I informed BG and they agreed to come back today (16 March) to re-inspect, but with the warning that they would in all likelihood disconnect again.

So, on March 14, I got a separate inspection from a 3rd gas-safe engineer. He tested thoroughly and found one small leak around the thermostat, which he fixed with what he called an approved sealant.

BG have just visited, they refute that any forcing of a seam took place and were adamant that the seam deteriorated as a result of wear and tear over 20 years (...yes, don't laugh, 20yrs old but all 3 remarked that, but for the disputed leak, the boiler is in perfect condition)

In 20mins, they managed to get a reading of 3 parts per million CO from a probe at a distance of 1cm, but they said (1) that any reading would be sufficient to say that there was a risk to life and give cause to condemn and (2) the use of any thermal sealant to effect a repair is against gas-safe regulations, no matter how effective, because it will give-up at some point in the future ...probably when the house falls down.

By the way, they told me that on the first visit, the reading was 5ppm and that is the point at which they cannot exercise any discretion ...or effect a simple repair?

Given the dire consequences of CO poisoning, I would not normally dispute such information and warnings , except that I now know that a cigarette smoker in the same room would generate a higher reading, that so would my gas cooker if I lit the burner and also that it is safe to work at 35ppm over an 8hr period.

Add to this the fact that two independent engineers have stated that, not only is my boiler in safe working order, but that the minor repairs of the type they carried out are not only permissable by gas-safe but are plain common sense, as an alternative to a £3k outlay to replace.

As it happened, common-sense prevailed today and BG simply re-evaluated my boiler as 'at-risk' instead of 'dangerous' (this means they have warned me that it will fail at some point in future, so they leave it switched-off but not disconnected, so that I can turn back on at my own-risk) ...something tells me that if they had declared it dangerous and I had just chucked them out of the house, then they would have looked pretty daft asking Transco to intervene on the basis of a 3ppm reading.

Now, here's where I need assistance ...I want to contact an ombudsman or similar body to get to the bottom of the differing views between BG and 2 independent parties with 70yrs experience between them.

OFGEM don't get involved in safety issues and Gas-Safe's website is impenetrable ...I just can't find one way or another whether they get involved in disputes ...can anyone advise who I need to contact? ...and does anyone have an informed opinion about whether BG are correct in their actions?

...and if you got to the end of this message, thanks for reading

ollski

Yes the manufacturer will tell you if it is an approved repair. Get it in writing.

Yolina

Based on quite a number of similar stories on here, I think BG are very quick to "condemn" boilers and try to flog a new one. Some so-called engineers are a law unto themselves.

I got in a bit of an argument with some guy from the National Grid about 18 months ago - they wanted to replace my meter - being in a flat, said meter is in a cupboard in a common area on the floor. Guy turns up, I show him where the meter is...he asks to see my boiler which is, incidentally, 20+ years old (so about as old as the guy who turned up... I totally lost confidence when he looked at me, very puzzled, and asked "how do you switch it off" :rotfl:) Then he tells me that my installation isn't up to current regulations so he won't change my meter until some work is done. Pointed out to him that regulations aren't retroactive so my boiler is done to the standard of 20 years ago, serviced every year by an independent and absolutely fine. Away he goes without changing the meter, he even had the cheek to report a gas leak at my address :mad: cue other bloke from National Grid turning up who couldn't find a gas leak or anything wrong with my boiler other than the fact that it's not up to current standards and so gave me an "at risk" advisory. That one even said that if it had been him changing the meter, he wouldn't even have looked at the boiler set up that closely :rotfl: I guess they're going to have to wait a few more years to change the meter because the boiler is only going to get brought up to current standards when I get it replaced

Ich_2

I've had the same with an insistence that if it doesn't meet existing regs it's dangerous. Took me 5 minutes to request the BG fitter leave my premises

Canucklehead

Hi.

LeCoop, What is the make and model of the boiler.

Have you contacted Gas Safe Register at all?


Yolina, ( and anyone else who might be wanting to post about 'regulations')

You need to be very specific as to the 'regulation' that your boiler has failed to meet.
No-one can tell you whether it is B.S. or a genuine fault without knowing exactly what you are advised is wrong


GSR

Yolina

My boiler is in a *big* cupboard and there's several air bricks on the external wall inside it and one of the air bricks (one which is lower than the flue, not directly below it but diagonal IYSWIM) is closer to the flue than current regs allow and some fumes might go back into the cupboard. But the 2nd guy (who did the notice) basically said "meh" and told me to not worry about it and just get it done as and when I have the boiler changed eventually :rotfl: I've been living in the place for 13 years with no ill-effects, the boiler is serviced every year and I do have a CO detector that hasn't bleeped so far so... It's the original boiler, flue and everything else from when the flats were built over 20 years ago.

And remember, there were here to change the gas meter, which is about 20m from the cupboard the boiler is in and the first guy came up with some stuff like "if I change your meter and then you die from CO poisoning, it would be on my conscience" !!!!!! does that have to do with the meter?!

gas4you

LeeCoop

As per usual BG engineer is talking a load of !!!!!!!! just to get you to have a new boiler fitted.

3 ppm co. what a joke! 30 ppm is action level.

lemontart

If a metering engineer has any concerns for safety regardless of what company he is from he has to leave property 100 percent safe and warn you that is part and parcel the companies licence to work. The metering engineer does not sell nor is he on any commission from anyone nor would it be part of his t&c for his contract. So no matter how small a concern it may appear to the householder he really has very little choice other than to make safe, though not sure why he did not change the meter and just leave capped until you got a gsi out.

That issue is something you would need a report for via you gas supplier - it would suggest that there may be other issues concerning the area where the meter is, the control valve or existent pipework,

Regardless of all this co is lethal and despite irritation over it, imho any potential risk is being highlighted and getting checked for you which is a good thing for your safety and that of your family.

Just being serviced every year does not mean it will not develop a fault, any service of any mechanical item such as car or other will id faults at time and give you chance to deal with before they become a real issue and with both cars and boilers they can be fatal. Things can go wrong at any time which no service can actually predict.

LeCoop

Canucklehead wrote: »

LeCoop, What is the make and model of the boiler. Have you contacted Gas Safe Register at all?

The boiler is a Baxi Solo WM 50/4 RS installed 1991 in a new build house.

I had another go at the Gase Safe website last nite and after a tortuous process, I raised a complaint under the guise of a bad installation with an opening note to explain the actual situation ...they don't have any criteria to fit a repair/maintenence dispute.

LeCoop

lemontart wrote: »

Lemontart ...not quite sure whether you are responding to me or to Yolinda's situation.

I am trying to get to the bottom of who is correct here ...I have BG trying to condemn my boiler because of a trace reading at a distance of 1cm, versus two independent Gas Safe registered engineers with 70yrs combined experience. They tell me that my boiler is perfectly safe and so long as I carry on having it serviced annually and take the precaution of fitting a monoxide detector*, then my boiler is good for a few years yet

*n.b. NOT because of the problem I have experienced, but because it is a low cost common-sense precaution that every householder should adopt, in their opinion ...its a shame that BG don't supply foc to HomeCare customers in return for their £350+ per annum.

ollski

gas4you wrote: »

LeeCoop

As per usual BG engineer is talking a load of !!!!!!!! just to get you to have a new boiler fitted.

3 ppm co. what a joke! 30 ppm is action level.

Seriously?? A hole in the case leaking pocs?. Perhaps the boiler combustion is only producing 3ppm co which is leaking through the 'sealed' case and maybe when it hasn't been serviced for a year or 2 it will produce 200 or more ppm which will be leaking through the case! Would you leave an old positive pressure netaheat 10/16 leaking 3ppm from the back?, potterton say any reading is ID wheras they also say a low reading is acceptable from the corners of a profile prima.