Lease of under house car port to next door?

navylouise

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but maybe someone could offer some advice!

My husband and I purchased a 'coach house' from Persimmon Homes last year and it comes with two car ports underneath. We were told from the start that one would be ours and the larger car port would be for next doors use. The solicitor and persimmon themselves told us that for this use, next door would pay a small percentage towards buildings insurance.

After living there a year with next door regularly parking in the car port (annoyingly as they only use the 2 car space for 1 of their cars) and hearing nothing more about the 'leasing' (which we assumed was dealt with) we got in contact with our solicitor to double check things and was told that it was nothing to do with them - we should be asking the neighbor for 10% of what we pay for our house insurance every year ourselves.

We were incredibly angry as not only does this mean that next door have been using it for free for a year, but also that we would have to knock on their door every year to demand a measly £11 from them when really we'd rather be using the carport ourselves!

We haven't approached them as of yet but will speak to them tonight.. just wondering if anyone has experience with this sort of thing?
We were also told we're not allowed to tell them to forget the money and use it ourself.. but surely this is wrong as we own it??
Can anyone offer advice or knowledge on the subject??

Thanks!

Strapped

Sounds like you own the freehold of part of their property (the car port). You should have a copy of the lease relating to the car port from your solicitor who did the conveyancing. If not, get one, as this will let you see what the lease specifies in relation to the car port. Your neighbours may well not be aware of an obligation to contribute to insurance costs and tbh, for £11 a year, I don't think I'd fall out with them!

ETA: You may "own" it (the freehold) but they have the right to use it (as they bought the lease) so no, you can not just "tell them to forget it" and use it yourself.

Lovelyjoolz

I'm sorry, this is a horrible situation you're in and I really don't envy you. I think you need to go to a solicitor (a different one, because your last one sounds useless) and try and clarify why this agreement to use what is effectively your land, is in place. They may be able to shed some light on how you can take back the space to use yourself.

TBH, this would be a dealbreaker for me - I would never have bought a house when someone else has the right to use the land. It sounds like a very peculiar set-up, perhaps one that can be reversed?

silvercar

Probably a planning condition was that each house had to have off street parking and this was a cheap way of delivering it.

Seems to me you have bought a coach house with a flying freehold. Google the term for more info, but basically it is their car port not yours, but you own the property above it.

I hope your solicitor explained it properly when you bought as these sort of arrangements can cause problems for mortgage lenders that can trip up a subsequent sale.

HappyMJ

My garage is under next doors house and I have to pay a small amount every year for the buildings insurance to the neighbour...but...only if they ask for it. In the 10 years I've been here they told me they would ask for it when I moved in and since then have never asked for it once. It's my garage but it is their land. I have a leasehold garage and they have the freehold of the land. If I were you I would just leave it. It is their carport to use as and when they want. You could ask for your 10% but for £11 I would not bother.

The neighbours in my case have access rights (on request) through the garage to get to to the rear of the property for maintenance and they have exercised that right a couple of times.

casper_g

silvercar wrote: »

Seems to me you have bought a coach house with a flying freehold. Google the term for more info, but basically it is their car port not yours, but you own the property above it.

I hope your solicitor explained it properly when you bought as these sort of arrangements can cause problems for mortgage lenders that can trip up a subsequent sale.

It's highly unlikely that the OP's coachhouse has a flying freehold, precisely because of the problems obtaining a mortgage on such a property. It sounds much more like the OP owns the freehold to all the land under the coachhouse, but the right to use one of the carports is leased to a neighbour. This is pretty common AIUI.

budgetdiyer

This is very common, normally its garages underneath a coach house.

There should be a lease document with you / your property as the freeholder and the neighbours are the leaseholder in respect to the space, and associated access rights.

Normally the rent on the lease would be a peppercorn. You'd need to check the lease to see if they are liable to pay a % of the buildings insurance.

Personally, i wouldn't bother with seeking a contribution towards the buildings insurance, nor asking for the annual peppercorn!

London_Town

Hi Navylouise,

I really don't think you need to feel angry about this as it's all perfectly normal. Maybe it will help if I explain my experience.

I bought a coach house from Persimmon in 2005. My paperwork confirmed that the apartment was my freehold (so I owned the land it was on) but two of the garages beneath me were on 999 year leases to neighbouring houses. It suggested they pay a "peppercorn" rent in the form of a contribution to building insurance. The garage lease was laid out to protect my home, by explaining all the things they couldn't do in the garage which could cause a disturbance to me. In return, they're able to store a car or a selection of limited things in there.

One neighbour did ask whether I wanted any contribution to insurance and if so, to produce some quotes. My reply was to say as long as they adhere to the lease, I wouldn't be asking for any money. As you say yourself, it's a small amount and it's far better to have good relations with people who park under your home.

As for being annoyed about them parking one car rather than two, I would be thankful they do park a car there. One alternative if it was left empty, could be kids playing football in there and making a real noise that would disturb you greatly.

Please don't get worked up about this, it's completely normal and is the way most new build coach houses have been done for some years now. Personally, I think it does have the potential to cause trouble, so I was happy to buy a freehold house a few years later.

casper_g

navylouise wrote: »

The solicitor and persimmon themselves told us that for this use, next door would pay a small percentage towards buildings insurance ... we should be asking the neighbor for 10% of what we pay for our house insurance every year ourselves.

We were incredibly angry...

You seem to have understood that the carport was leased to the neighbour. The only problem seems to be that you though someone else would deal with collecting the money for the insurance contribution from the neighbour.

How did you think this would operate in practice? The solicitor handled the conveyancing, but is no longer involved. Persimmon built the properties, but now owns neither of them.

Nobody knows how much your insurance will cost next year, so how can a certain percentage of that unknown cost be paid to you by your neighbour without you telling the neighbour how much it is? Perhaps I'm missing the point, but I'm afraid I don't understand what the issue is.

navylouise

Wow I feel like I'm being attacked for being a first time buyer with no experience of this sort of thing!
Thanks to those with positive input, I understand a lot more now!

The only issue I had was that neither Persimmon nor the solicitors ever properly explained the process from the beginning. Even though we asked numerous times. We have no paperwork to tell us how it works either, all I've ever known is that we own the ground due to it being marked out as ours on plans etc. They told us that the neighbor would be paying the solicitor for some sort of extra insurance for the use of garage and that was that.

The whole thing was never explained correctly at all.

The only gripe I have is that if the guy who parks underneath were to, say, drive into the back wall and knock half our house down.. wouldn't it be us paying the excess to get the insurance to fix it again?

Strapped

navylouise wrote: »

Wow I feel like I'm being attacked for being a first time buyer with no experience of this sort of thing!
Thanks to those with positive input, I understand a lot more now!

The only issue I had was that neither Persimmon nor the solicitors ever properly explained the process from the beginning. Even though we asked numerous times. We have no paperwork to tell us how it works either, all I've ever known is that we own the ground due to it being marked out as ours on plans etc. They told us that the neighbor would be paying the solicitor for some sort of extra insurance for the use of garage and that was that.

The whole thing was never explained correctly at all.

The only gripe I have is that if the guy who parks underneath were to, say, drive into the back wall and knock half our house down.. wouldn't it be us paying the excess to get the insurance to fix it again?

Check the lease.