help with notice of tennacy termination

st

What I still can not understand is the Section 21 notice , issued Feb 22 ,with notice for possession after 25 April 2012.
The 6 months ends April 24.
The solicitor/LL are saying they" can stay in the property until at least 25 April, thereafter should you choose to vacate the property therefeafter valid notice ( 2 months) is required".

They also indicating that should you decide to vacate before April 25 the LL does not and will not accept vacation and is fully entitled to recover all rent due and owing her up to the date when you provide valid notice or she agrees a new tenancy with a third party.
I quote " we note that the 25th of each month is the date on which you are required to make your payments ( there has never being a rent payment problem at from daughter),our client is entitled to rent of £1320 ( it is £440/month) should you choose to vacate before 25 April.This represents rent payable on 25 March and thereafter 25 April .Further if you wish to give notice of your intention to vacate the property at that time a further 2 months rent will due.
Further you may also be liable to rent that would havw being payable until such time a tenancy has being granted to alternative tennant".

The 6 months ends 24 April and the £440 rent is due on March 25 which will be paid so up to the 6 months .

It is a minefield and all my daughter needs at 7 1/2 month pregnant .

G_M

Personally I would totally ignore the solicitor.

There is a Fixed Term tenancy which ends on 25th April. Therefore no notice is required provided
a) rent continues to be paid up till 25th April and
b) the property is vacated on or before the 25th April

Therefore no formal letters/notice are needed, either to the LL or the solicitor. Given the solicitor's responses to date, I would not enter into further communication which will just instigate a further (possibly confusing and antagonising) response.

If you DO choose to communicate further:
1) do it in writing
2) use the official address for the serving of notices on the landlord which is usually on your tenancy agreement
3) or simply arrange a key hand-over and check-out inspection date informally with the LL direct - but at that time get a written receipt for the keys as well as some signature on the check-out inspection - this could consitute an Early Surrender agreement and let you off the final months rent!

Note that if the tenancy continues to 25th April, not only does rent continue to be payable, but so do council tax, utilities and responsibility for damage to the property - hence importance of signatures on key receipt/Early Surrender.

I repeat - do not continue this crazy (and pointless) dialogue via the solicitors.

st

G_M wrote: »

Personally I would totally ignore the solicitor.

There is a Fixed Term tenancy which ends on 25th April. Therefore no notice is required provided
a) rent continues to be paid up till 25th April and
b) the property is vacated on or before the 25th April

Therefore no formal letters/notice are needed, either to the LL or the solicitor. Given the solicitor's responses to date, I would not enter into further communication which will just instigate a further (possibly confusing and antagonising) response.

If you DO choose to communicate further:
1) do it in writing
2) use the official address for the serving of notices on the landlord which is usually on your tenancy agreement
3) or simply arrange a key hand-over and check-out inspection date informally with the LL direct - but at that time get a written receipt for the keys as well as some signature on the check-out inspection - this could consitute an Early Surrender agreement and let you off the final months rent!

Note that if the tenancy continues to 25th April, not only does rent continue to be payable, but so do council tax, utilities and responsibility for damage to the property - hence importance of signatures on key receipt/Early Surrender.

I repeat - do not continue this crazy (and pointless) dialogue via the solicitors.

Thanks the problem is the LL solicitor has informed that the LL instructs that she is not contacted direct and all contact is to him the solicitor .
We are going to see my solicitor hopefully tomorrow .

dimbo61

Please make sure you read the meters, gas, electric and water and inform the companies when your daughter leaves ( take photos with a good digital camera with time+date on the photos!!!)
Inform the council tax people of when you are leaving and the new address so that the right bill goes to the new address.
Redirect mail for at least 12 months and write to every company that sends mail to the old address
Good Luck

st

dimbo61 wrote: »

Please make sure you read the meters, gas, electric and water and inform the companies when your daughter leaves ( take photos with a good digital camera with time+date on the photos!!!)
Inform the council tax people of when you are leaving and the new address so that the right bill goes to the new address.
Redirect mail for at least 12 months and write to every company that sends mail to the old address
Good Luck

Thank you that is so kind and thoughtful,this whole problem has really stressed her and had to go to Docs on Friday .

G_M

st wrote: »

Thanks the problem is the LL solicitor has informed that the LL instructs that she is not contacted direct and all contact is to him the solicitor .
We are going to see my solicitor hopefully tomorrow .

So?

Do you have to do what a rude and clearly poorly informed solicitor tells you? No!

All AST tenancies have to include an official address for the serving of notices. Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 . Tenants MUST be informed in writing at the start of a tenancy what this address for the LL is. Without this, tenants do not have to pay rent. THIS is where you write official letters to the LL.

I repeat, unless the official address for the serving of notices is c/o the solicitor (check your tenancy agreement) ignore the solicitor. Just because someone is a solicitor does not mean you must do as they say!

My advice is to either:

1) accept that the tenancy will continue to April 25th. Ignore solicitor. Write to no one. Contact no one. Pay the rent till then as usual. Since you will still be a tenant, keep the keys. Visit once a week or so to check the property. Pay the bills. On 25th April, end the tenany by handing back keys. All liabilty then ends (as said before, NO notice is required to end a Fixed term tenancy.)

2) Try to hand back responsibility to the LL earlier. This really involves Early Surrender of the tenancy ie hand back keys, check-out inspection, end liability for bills, rent and everything. Can only be done by agreement with LL. By the sound of it this will NOT be accomplished via the solicitor so again - ignore solicitor. So try amicable discussion with LL. If LL responds positively, fine. If not, or you are referred back to solicitor, then use option 1 above.

franklee

Do tell your daughter not to get stressed over this. As explained up thread she is entitled to leave by the end of the fixed term and pay rent only till the end of the fixed term. If doing this it's best she has written evidence she informed the landlady that's what she is doing so there can be no dispute when she left. Also as your daughter is responsible for the property till the end of the fixed term I suggest she or a friend pop in to check the property regularly.

Although in this case strictly speaking the S21 isn't needed it is what prompted the tenant to look elsewhere. Therefore the landlady (or likely her solicitor) has brought this problem on her own head by serving the S21 notice even though it sounds like she didn't want the tenant to leave. This (sometimes nicknamed Sword of Damocles) is a shoddy practise designed to make eviction quicker should the landlord want the tenant to go in future.

Also make sure your daughter's deposit is protected in a scheme. If she had been given the detail of what scheme it's in check it with them, e.g. by looking it up online. It may be she will have to defend against the landlady trying to take the extra rent from her deposit. But if she has evidence she moved out before the end of the fixed term and that she notified the landlady of this with even a short notice then she should be fine.

Also want have a look at OFT 356,
Guidance on unfair terms in tenancy agreements (September 2005)
and then report the solicitor to the Office of Fair Trading:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/publications/publication-categories/guidance/unfair-terms-consumer/oft356

See page 26:
"3.62
A fixed term tenancy comes to an end when the fixed term runs out and a tenant does not have to give notice to end it.

And page 31:
"Notice not required for fixed term agreements

3.78
A tenant is not required to give notice to bring the tenancy to an end at the end of the fixed term. That is because a fixed term agreement comes to an end at the end of the fixed term, and no periodic tenancy will arise if the tenant then leaves. We appreciate that landlords will want to ensure that their properties are not left empty between tenancies, but object to terms that impose a contractual obligation on the tenant to give notice in order for the tenancy to be terminated at the end of the fixed term. This could allow the landlord to impose a substantial financial penalty on tenants who do not realise that notice is not required, by requiring them to pay rent for a period after the end of the fixed term. Terms such as this are not necessary to protect landlords from the possibility that their property will be left empty, as the law allows landlords to recover possession at the end of the fixed term by serving at least two months' notice, and they could do so where their current tenant fails to indicate when asked whether they intend to stay on. The landlord and tenant could of course still agree to a renewal of the tenancy even after such notice was served."

Soot2006

Molehill turned into a mountain by the sounds of it!
you have received sound advice from this forum ...

st

Soot2006 wrote: »

Molehill turned into a mountain by the sounds of it!
you have received sound advice from this forum ...

Yes it has by the LL and here solicitor ,excellent advise received thank you .
However alone I can not reason with the LL now , she has implied that I am a liar and did not agree to what we discussed on the phone.
Contacting my solicitors when they open.
It really is crazy, they have pais rent without faiknl on time by DD every month so no problems ,what is it with the LL not accepting their surrennder 4 weeks early after she had served notice ,she gets the full rent for those 4 weeks -but she wants more .
Will keep you all updated .Thanks again.

st

See my solicitor 09.30 tomorrow morning, he can not understand it either what LL/Solicitor are up to.