help with notice of tennacy termination

st

My pregnant daughter and partner were given a section 21 notice dated 22/02/12 to require possesion of the dwelling on 25/04 /2012 ,this date being the end of the 6 month fixed agreement.
As you can imagine they needed to find another affordable suitable property asap and they found one ealry last week and agreeed to accept this and move in around 25/03.

They informed the landladies solicitor who has issued the notice and text the landlady informing that they will vacate the property on 25 March.
They are quite happy to pay the rent in full to the end of the agreeement 25 April.

Today they received a very nasty letter from the landladies solicitor informing them that they are in breach of the agreement and have to give 2 months notice ( how can they when she has already issued 2 months notice) .
Saying they will liable for rent up to April 25 and that she will not accept the return of the keys and they have to stay until 25 April and all her legal costs will be charged to them.
The lady imo is crazy, she will still have her rent to the end of the agreement .
I phone the solicitor was equally unhelpful and did not agree that that the fixed agreeement had being broken by his client in issueing the 2 months notice .
They have to take the new property and can not wait until April 25 , with a baby due soon .
i told the solictor what is the problem she will get her rent upo to the end of the 6 months .

Any suggestions/advice. Thanks

anselld

There should be no problem.

You say "they are happy to pay rent to 25th April", but did they make this clear to LL/ solicitor when informing of their intention to vacate.

It just sounds like the LL has assumed they are trying to get out of a months rent which you say is not the case. Breakdown of communication somewhere along the line, surely.

st

anselld wrote: »

There should be no problem.

You say "they are happy to pay rent to 25th April", but did they make this clear to LL/ solicitor when informing of their intention to vacate.

It just sounds like the LL has assumed they are trying to get out of a months rent which you say is not the case. Breakdown of communication somewhere along the line, surely.

Thanks , that is what i thought "no problem" , they told me that had informed LL/Solicitor but maybe they forgot .

dimbo61

Hope everything goes OK with your daughters pregnancy and she is happy in her new home.

tbs624

st wrote: »

My pregnant daughter and partner were given a section 21 notice dated 22/02/12 to require possesion of the dwelling on 25/04 /2012 ,this date being the end of the 6 month fixed agreement.

If the Fixed Term ends on 25 April 2012 then the S21 should say that the LL intends to seek repossession*after* that date. T does not have to move out on that date - they can stay put until the LL obtains a court order, and bailiff enforcement if necessary.

st wrote: »

As you can imagine they needed to find another affordable suitable property asap and they found one ealry last week and agreeed to accept this and move in around 25/03.

They informed the landladies solicitor who has issued the notice and text the landlady informing that they will vacate the property on 25 March.
They are quite happy to pay the rent in full to the end of the agreeement 25 April.

They should not be using text messages for this - old fashioned snail mail with copy kept for their own records. They are of course free to move out earlier than the end of the Fixed Term but they are obliged to pay the rent and other costs due under the tenancy agreement until the end of the Fixed Term and they need to have made it clear that they understand that.

st wrote: »

Today they received a very nasty letter from the landladies solicitor informing them that they are in breach of the agreement and have to give 2 months notice ( how can they when she has already issued 2 months notice) .
Saying they will liable for rent up to April 25 and that she will not accept the return of the keys and they have to stay until 25 April and all her legal costs will be charged to them.

In Eng/Wales Ts are not obliged to give any formal notice to leave at the end of a Fixed Term, never mind 2 months. It is of course courteous to let a LL know what is happening and as the property will be left empty if the Ts go early, it is important that the LL does know because there will be insurance implications.

Unless the LL specifically agrees otherwise, the Ts will need to check on the property from time to time up until the FT end as they would remain liable for the property until then.

st wrote: »

I phone the solicitor was equally unhelpful and did not agree that that the fixed agreeement had being broken by his client in issueing the 2 months notice .

A S21 Notice is a no fault notice - if the LL requires repossession after the end of the FT they are *not* "breaking the FT agreement"


Perhaps both the solicitor and the LL have misunderstood what your daughter is saying?

Was a tenancy deposit paid by your daughter and if yes, has it been scheme registered and the scheme's prescribed information passed to your daughter by the LL?

st

Update.
Having informed the LL solictor that the rent would be fully paid and that my daughter will vacate 25 March ,we wait LL ok.
As of Friday no reply, so I phone the LL, she said "she had no problem with them moving out and that the handover of the keys on 25 was fine ". I had told her rent will be fully paid to the end of agreement ,she said please inform her solicitor of this matter .
I also ask if the Sunday 25 was ok and if i could contact her on her mobile, answer = no problem.

I send a e mail to LL solicitor informing him of my conversation.
This morning my daughter received a letter from the LL solicitor stating that the LL did agree to this and that LL will noty accept the vacation for the property on 25 or hand over of the keys and that they have to stay until end of the agreeement 25 April as per the agreement.
Again the LL solicitor advising that LL needs 2 months notice to vacate.
Now my daughter who is 7 months pregnant is so stressed ,they have the new property to move to and now this crazy LL.
I can not see the problem she is not loosing as she is having her rent fully paid.
The solicitors letter also stated that all contact must be via him .
Time is short now , looks like we will have to appoint a solicitor to sort this out Monday morning .
Any help or suggrstions apprecaited .
Thank you

Yorkie1

The LL's solicitor is plain wrong. Even if your daughter had not received the s.21 notice, she could have decided to up sticks and move out on the final day of the fixed term, without having to give any notice to the LL.

Had she stayed longer than the final day of the fixed term, her notice period is then 1 month to coincide with a rental period.

It is the LL's responsibility to have to give 2 months' notice.

I suggest that in a way the s.21 notice is a red herring here. Your daughter has decided that she will have moved out by the end of the fixed term, and given the LL due notice of this.

The LL cannot insist that your daughter actually lives in the property until the final date of the tenancy. The only difficulty may relate to insurance, which says that the property cannot be left unoccupied for longer than a certain maximum period at a time (often 30 days). Also, your daughter would be responsible for any damage done to the property whilst not in residence.

Is the deposit protected and has your daughter received the prescribed information about which scheme it is in?

st

Yorkie1 wrote: »

The LL's solicitor is plain wrong. Even if your daughter had not received the s.21 notice, she could have decided to up sticks and move out on the final day of the fixed term, without having to give any notice to the LL.

Had she stayed longer than the final day of the fixed term, her notice period is then 1 month to coincide with a rental period.

It is the LL's responsibility to have to give 2 months' notice.

I suggest that in a way the s.21 notice is a red herring here. Your daughter has decided that she will have moved out by the end of the fixed term, and given the LL due notice of this.

The LL cannot insist that your daughter actually lives in the property until the final date of the tenancy. The only difficulty may relate to insurance, which says that the property cannot be left unoccupied for longer than a certain maximum period at a time (often 30 days). Also, your daughter would be responsible for any damage done to the property whilst not in residence.

Is the deposit protected and has your daughter received the prescribed information about which scheme it is in?

Thank you she is in a deposit protectiion scheme.

What I can not understand , the LL will not loose out as she is having the rent paid up until the end of the 6 months .
Being 7 months pregnant they had to find a suitable affordable place asap which they did and they move in 25th.
The LL in this case being so helpful and has allowed them in to decorate .

Yorkie1

I think the solicitor continues to misunderstand what you are trying to do.

Subject to any other members' comments, I would suggest that you write (not email) the solicitor. Keep it brief. Do not get drawn into arguments about 2 months etc.

Reiterate that you will pay rent until the end of the fixed term period of the tenancy on the 25th April. Confirm your notice and that you will have vacated the property by the end of the tenancy and will return the keys / expect a checkout inspection at the end of the tenancy. I'd avoid further reference to 25th March.

I would leave it at that. Don't be intimidated by them. I'm not sure that the threat about legal fees has any substance to it. If they want to make deductions from your daughter's deposit then they have to justify the basis for doing so, which they can't on what you've written to date.

The only issue, which I've mentioned before, and others with more experience hopefully can comment on, is what to do about leaving the property empty for a month before the end of the tenancy.

Obviously your daughter will remain liable for council tax, water, utilities etc - I'd make sure I took meter readings on the day of handing back keys so nobody ran up bills on my account thereafter.

But leaving the property empty can be said to be untenantlike behaviour if the emptiness causes damage to the flat or means that leaks etc cannot be identified when they arise. It may also invalidate the LL's insurance.

st

Yorkie1 wrote: »

I think the solicitor continues to misunderstand what you are trying to do.

Subject to any other members' comments, I would suggest that you write (not email) the solicitor. Keep it brief. Do not get drawn into arguments about 2 months etc.

Reiterate that you will pay rent until the end of the fixed term period of the tenancy on the 25th April. Confirm your notice and that you will have vacated the property by the end of the tenancy and will return the keys / expect a checkout inspection at the end of the tenancy. I'd avoid further reference to 25th March.

I would leave it at that. Don't be intimidated by them. I'm not sure that the threat about legal fees has any substance to it. If they want to make deductions from your daughter's deposit then they have to justify the basis for doing so, which they can't on what you've written to date.

The only issue, which I've mentioned before, and others with more experience hopefully can comment on, is what to do about leaving the property empty for a month before the end of the tenancy.

Obviously your daughter will remain liable for council tax, water, utilities etc - I'd make sure I took meter readings on the day of handing back keys so nobody ran up bills on my account thereafter.

But leaving the property empty can be said to be untenantlike behaviour if the emptiness causes damage to the flat or means that leaks etc cannot be identified when they arise. It may also invalidate the LL's insurance.

Thanks , I think we are dealing with a crazy LL ,who denies what she agreed to me on the phone yesterday and then passed all to her solicitor who has repeated the facts that they are acting unlawful.
I will contact my solicitors Monday as the stress on my daughter is now worse after this latest letter.
IMO what is wrong with LL, she gets her renty paid up to 25 April and she has the property vacated one month early to do what she likes.
She is not loosing in terms of the monthly rental income .
Crazy imo.

BitterAndTwisted

My feeling is that there has been a number of misunderstandings very possibly having been brought about by a landlord/client who is crazy being advised by a solicitor with an incomplete understanding of the LL&T legislation. Not helped by the daughter/partner/you "speaking" to people. All of this should have been done in writing so I suggest very strongly indeed that this should be done as soon as possible.

A letter worded something like this:

As you are aware our fixed-term AST is due to end on x date and we confirm receipt of your client's Section 21 Notice seeking to bring about the end of the tenancy. We accept that the tenancy will end and consequently have secured alternative accommodation and intend to vacate the property on y date. We acknowledge that we are legally responsible for paying the rent in full until the end of the fixed-term on the 25th of April and fully intend to do so.

As we are leaving the property almost a full calender month before the fixed-term is due to end we would be grateful if your client could contact us to arrange a mutually convenient time to carry out the check-out inspection and for us to return the keys to her.