Oil boiler sizing - is bigger better?

TiredGeek

OK, time to clarify
They're out, gone, good riddance
And it wasn't the heatpumps, we think the Mitsi is a good unit which, fitted correctly would work a treat. There were installation and commissioning issues with our system, not the technology.
Hence our mention of not giving up entirely with them, just maybe get a different company to fit new ones better.....

Mixed messages, yep, about right as we are still unsure of the best route to go for the future.

We've been looking at Grant boilers, both indoor and outdoor models. They quote 90+% efficiency (but we'll take that with a bucket of salt) and from what we've seen and heard they're pretty good. They do an outdoor 16/21kw model that should be easy to plumb in as a lot of the pipework is still there from the ASHP

Apparently the new Mitsi controller can manage multiple units and even an oil & ASHP combo, which sounds promising. One 14kw for mild weather use, an oil boiler for frost 'stat and very severe weather.

albyota

Thanks TiredGeek for clearing that up, I appreciate you have had a bad experience from start to finish, and all the advice you got from us and the other forums, was sadly too late. There are over 40,000 heat pumps fitted in the UK at present, and I would say, from experience, 98% of them have been spec'd and fitted correctly, but no one ever reports good news.....!
good luck with with the new boiler installation.

p.s. If you were local, I would jump at the chance to carry out an independent report on the whole system.

TiredGeek

albyota wrote: »

p.s. If you were local, I would jump at the chance to carry out an independent report on the whole system.

And we'd have jumped at the chance of having you do one as well !

We've had a lot of very good advice on here and elsewhere, and it's what has kept us sane and led us to meet some very helpfull and knowledgeable people who have given their time and effort with absolutely nothing to gain for themselves. People have taken time from running their own businesses to give us free advice and practical help, and we will be forever in their debt
Those people who have been very directly involved, and I can't name names, but they know who they are, will be compensated with holidays at our place, for as long as we own it and as long as they wish to use it

Without the help we have had we would have been taking a much much bigger financial hit than we are.....

[Deleted User]

Sorry to hear of your woes...

After all this upheaval it sounds as though you are back at square one again...

Cheers

Cardew

albyota wrote: »

Thanks TiredGeek for clearing that up, I appreciate you have had a bad experience from start to finish, and all the advice you got from us and the other forums, was sadly too late. There are over 40,000 heat pumps fitted in the UK at present, and I would say, from experience, 98% of them have been spec'd and fitted correctly, but no one ever reports good news.....!
good luck with with the new boiler installation.

p.s. If you were local, I would jump at the chance to carry out an independent report on the whole system.

How on earth do you deduce 98%?

The internet is full of woes about ASHPs - as is MSE - and you have read the EST year long trial of 29 systems which by any standards gave terrible results. Several with a COP of 1.6 or less.

Much as I respect most of your posts, you should declare an interest in that you install ASHPs

albyota

Cardew wrote: »

How on earth do you deduce 98%?

The internet is full of woes about ASHPs - as is MSE - and you have read the EST year long trial of 29 systems which by any standards gave terrible results. Several with a COP of 1.6 or less.

Much as I respect most of your posts, you should declare an interest in that you install ASHPs

Cardew, there you go again, same old, out of date, EST heat pump trial of .....how many?........29.....fitted in 2008.....before MCS accreditation, when we all learnt some valuable lessons, well most of us did.

I'm sure people reading your, 'scratched record' comments, are capable of working it out for themselves.;)

Its never been a secret, I work for a company that have been installing heat pumps for 14 years, but I don't come on here in that guise.
Most of my posts are unbiased and useful / helpful advice. I actually own one, since OCT 08, and have a passion in energy saving, I know how they work, how much money they can save, what their limitations are, where not to use them, and most importantly, how to specify and install them correctly.

Your gripe...and mine, is with the cowboys who are getting away with throwing them in whilst not having a clue. One of the manufacturers told me that they will be allowing the plumbing merchants to stock their equipment.....that spells disaster!, and goes against what the MCS are trying to stop. unless only sold to MCS installers.

The amount of ASHP's fitted in the UK is in excess of the 40,000 but I used that figure from the three manufacturers we deal with, info, units sold to date. We fitted 200 last year, there are 47 manufacturers of heat pumps, all with a market share in the UK, unfortunately, the rubbish kit is cheap, which.....looks attractive to those on a tight budget, HA's, Landlords, Developers etc.

Next week we will be ripping out a Non Inverter driven Grant Aerona 60Amp running current, fitted by a non MCS Plumber, and putting an Ecodan in its place. I know of 20 more Grant units that will be being replaced soon if the tenants get their way, high bills etc. fitted by a local authority.

Yesterday I told a chap that his house was not suitable, grade 2 listed, single glazed, he is spending over £2,000/yr on oil, he was very disappointed.

About 39,000 systems that you don't hear of, have no problems, 800+ systems, we repeatedly hear about. As the amount of installations increase, over the coming months/year, the amount of 'Bad' installations should reduce.

And.... when all the housing associations etc. learn that 'The bitterness of low quality is long remembered after the sweetness of low price is forgotten!' and that exhaust air heat pump is probably not the way to go and they get ripped out........

Cardew

The 'scratched record' posts are because new people come to MSE all the time and haven't read all the thousands of posts on ASHP or be aware that you fit ASHPs.

Regarding the EST trial, the results were so poor that it has been extended for a further 12 months to 'understand the reasons' for the poor performance.

The difficulty for prospective purchasers is(to use your words) sorting out ' the cowboys who are getting away with throwing them in whilst not having a clue' AND sorting out from 'the 47 manufacturers of heat pumps, all with a market share in the UK, unfortunately, the rubbish kit is cheap, which.....looks attractive to those on a tight budget,'

Until installers can offer some independantly verified guarantee of performance, prospective buyers are just taking pot luck.

[Deleted User]

Cardew wrote: »

The 'scratched record' posts are because new people come to MSE all the time and haven't read all the thousands of posts on ASHP or be aware that you fit ASHPs.

Regarding the EST trial, the results were so poor that it has been extended for a further 12 months to 'understand the reasons' for the poor performance.

The difficulty for prospective purchasers is(to use your words) sorting out ' the cowboys who are getting away with throwing them in whilst not having a clue' AND sorting out from 'the 47 manufacturers of heat pumps, all with a market share in the UK, unfortunately, the rubbish kit is cheap, which.....looks attractive to those on a tight budget,'

Until installers can offer some independantly verified guarantee of performance, prospective buyers are just taking pot luck.

You may be waiting a while for more EST results...

Unfortunately my system has been selected for monitoring but will be a while yet before equipment installed to log results...

Cardew

albyota wrote: »

There are over 40,000 heat pumps fitted in the UK at present, and I would say, from experience, 98% of them have been spec'd and fitted correctly,

Just been reading the latest WHICH on-line and found this quote:

Heat pump trial - key findings




The study found that only 13% of all sites in the trial achieved a level of efficiency the EST considers to be a 'well-performing' system, with the rest scoring below this benchmark.

albyota

.......................yaaawwwn