Section 21b notice to quit prior to start of tenancy

Werdnal

Great welcome to your new property isn't it!

Many ignorant agents/LL do this, even though the new deposit protection regulations actually make the issue of an S21 prior to the protection of the deposit invalid.

Just shows how anyone (Steve1980?) can set themselves up as a so called letting/estate agent, without knowing or understanding anything about tenancy law!

Ignore it, its invalid, but don't tell your agent/LL just yet!!!!

Steve1980 - if you don't mind me saying, perhaps you should concentrate on the "Web designer and Geek" bit, and leave the estate agent side of things to someone who knows what they are doing :rotfl:

franklee

Serving a S21 as a precaution is not standard, it's agents who don't understand the law say it's standard.

It's shabby as it's designed to circumvent to need to give a tenant two months notice fair and square as what good is a notice if a tenant is told not to worry about it as it's standard. The notice period is meant to be a time when the tenant arranges their onward move. Serving the S21 as a precaution means the landlord can choose to ask the tenant to leave, perhaps only a week before the end of the fixed term, which isn't two months notice!

tbs624, While I agree with your points that the OP's S21 was given too soon I'd just like to add that if a landlord/agent is of the "Sword of Damocles" serve an S21 as a precaution mindset then the OP can well expect another precautionary S21 to be served, maybe after the next renewal, and that one may well be valid.

Also agree with your point about using the S21 to apply pressure for the tenant to sign up for a further fixed term rather than the tenancy continuing on a month to month basis. This of course lets the agent charge a fee for a renewal that otherwise would not be necessary,

panickymum, If you do get served another valid S21 then try to get written confirmation from the agent/landlord of what they intend it to mean. If they won't put that you can stay on in writing then you'll have to renew the tenancy in good time or be prepared to either move with little notice or risk being taken to court for possession. The latter may well mean you have to pay the landlord's court fee and won't look great on a reference. So my advice is to get what you can in writing to show why you didn't use the S21 notice period to arrange your onward move. If nothing else it will allow you to show your next landlord that you weren't being "bad" in staying on past the S21 notice period and hopefully mean you won't be liable for any court fees the landlord incurs should he action the S21.

As ever if someone won't confirm in writing be very wary about relying on what they say and confirm it in writing to them yourself!

tbs624

franklee wrote: »

I'd just like to add that if a landlord/agent is of the "Sword of Damocles" serve an S21 as a precaution mindset then the OP can well expect another precautionary S21 to be served, maybe after the next renewal, and that one may well be valid.

I fully agree with you on the unfairness of the old SoD. However, in the OP's case if the LA/LL remains in the same state of ignorance they will believe that the initial S21 served at the wrong time still stands :-)

franklee wrote: »

panickymum, If you do get served another valid S21 then try to get written confirmation from the agent/landlord of what they intend it to mean. ...

..just make sure it * has* been validly served before asking the LA/LL anything about it. As before, if the S21 is invalid for whatever reason, and you know so, don't help them out by drawing attention to it.

jjlandlord

tbs624 wrote: »

However, in the OP's case if the LA/LL remains in the same state of ignorance they will believe that the initial S21 served at the wrong time still stands :-)

Only if they are unaware that granting a new tenancy invalidate their previous s.21 notice.
It's a possibility, but I wouldn't bet on it.

But obviously their procedure might be so that they serve the notice too early every time

franklee

tbs624 wrote: »

I fully agree with you on the unfairness of the old SoD. However, in the OP's case if the LA/LL remains in the same state of ignorance they will believe that the initial S21 served at the wrong time still stands :-)

Yes hopefully that will be the case.

However if a renewal is signed then I'd anticipate even an incompetent agent will realise another S21 would need to be served and they may do that as a precaution again. Some tenants renew every 6/12 months and get given a S21 each time so they end up with loads. I guess they get a bit complacent about them and it would come as a surprise when one is actioned.

tbs624 wrote: »

..just make sure it * has* been validly served before asking the LA/LL anything about it. As before, if the S21 is invalid for whatever reason, and you know so, don't help them out by drawing attention to it.

Agreed. Although if I got warning the agent/landlord was the "Sword of Damocles" type before paying any money I'd consider walking away as I prefer to be treated fairly. A rotten agent can make a tenancy unpleasant. Depends on how much choice of property there is etc.

PS: Did you see this novel challenge the the S21?

Rumour has it…
http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2012/02/rumour-has-it/

Bit more here:
http://blog.anthonygold.co.uk/2012/03/could-this-be-the-end-of-accelerated-possession/

tbs624

Yes, I had seen that Franklee ( the nearlylegal one) - a case to watch with interest.

Interesting attempt to use Human Rights legislation. I don't think it will be a successful challenge. I shall however crawl back down if it is

Thanks for posting the links up

lighting_up_the_chalice

Whilst I agree with other posters who have brought into question the validity of serving this kind of S21, it may be worth considering it's use from the tenants point of view.

Should the LL try to enforce it, any challenge would be very likely to succeed.

However, after the end of the initial 6 months, the tenant would not need to give any further notice to leave the tenancy, the landlords actions have already done this.

Just something to consider.

jjlandlord

lighting_up_the_chalice wrote: »

However, after the end of the initial 6 months, the tenant would not need to give any further notice to leave the tenancy, the landlords actions have already done this.

why?

T would still need to serve a notice to quit to end the tenancy.

Werdnal

lighting_up_the_chalice wrote: »

However, after the end of the initial 6 months, the tenant would not need to give any further notice to leave the tenancy, the landlords actions have already done this.

If tenant leaves before midnight on the last day of the 6 month fixed term, then they need give no notice at all.

If they leave AFTER (as you state), they are still required to give the standard 1 month notice.

S21 is not a notice to quit, it does not end the tenancy - only a court order can do that!

An S21 is no use to the tenant whatsoever, and in this case, as it has been invalidated by issue prior to deposit protection, is actually no use to the agent/LL either!

lighting_up_the_chalice

jjlandlord wrote: »

why?

T would still need to serve a notice to quit to end the tenancy.

Not with a S21 already served.