Section 21b notice to quit prior to start of tenancy

panickymum

Hi folks

Apologies, I am sure this is covered elsewhere but all I could find so far was advice to 'take care' if you are issued with a 21b notice to quit at the beginning of a tenancy.

I am very excited about picking up the keys to my new rental property on Friday! I have received the documents I need to sign in the post and bring them with me on the day. One of them is a section 21b notice to quit. What do you advise I do? Am I right in thinking this means they can simply ask me to leave without giving me notice as the 21b notice has already been served? Should I sign this document? I have a small child and this concerns me.

Many thanks in advance for any advice you can offer

hellokitty08

I was a bit worried when I had to sign one, but three years later I am still in the same flat.

It was however a major benefit when the neigbour from hell moved in and they got evicted really quickly once the 6 months was up.

steve1980

The notice is given at the start of the tenancy so that after the 6/12 months the landlord has already given notice to quit.

This is standard on all lettings.

tbs624

Your LL/LA is a fool. It is often the case that S21s are served early on in a tenancy but........

For a S21 Notice of intent to repossess (not a NTQ) to be valid the LL needs to be able to show that it has been served after:

(a)the tenancy agreement was signed, otherwise there is no tenancy in existence at the time of service
(b) any tenancy deposit given by the T has been scheme registered and the scheme's prescribed information given to the T

It should be a S21(1) (b) btw if for a Fixed term tenancy

If a valid notice is served what it means is that the LL *can* proceed straight to court for a possession order the day after the Fixed Term expiry, if the T has not moved out. T does not actually have to go until the court order is obtained and bailiff enforcement is used, if necessary.

However, many LLs and Ts continue with the same tenancy after the initial FT even where a S21 is in place.

LAs like to have the S21 in place because they can use it to apply pressure for the T to sign up for a further fixed term rather than the tenancy continuing on a month to month basis, under a statutory periodic agreement. It is also useful where the T turns out to be a wrong 'un and the LL really does need to evict.

jjlandlord

steve1980 wrote: »

The notice is given at the start of the tenancy so that after the 6/12 months the landlord has already given notice to quit.

This is standard on all lettings.

1. s.21 is not a notice to quit.
2. this is not standard.

tbs624

steve1980 wrote: »

The notice is given at the start of the tenancy so that after the 6/12 months the landlord has already given notice to quit.

This is standard on all lettings.

It is not standard on all lettings for it to be given at the start. Pitfalls as mentioned above.

Some LLs choose to serve early on, others will leave it until the 3rd/4th month of the tenancy or later

DVardysShadow

steve1980 wrote: »

The notice is given at the start of the tenancy so that after the 6/12 months the landlord has already given notice to quit.

This is standard on all lettings.

Really? It is done frequently. Possibly in the majority of cases. But it is by no means necessary or required and cannot be described as 'standard'.

It is in fact a largely pointless exercise in posturing, conveying an unnecessary negative message. If a Landlord needs to issue a S21, he has until the end of month four to do this and should know by that time whether he needs to do it.

Emmylou_2

steve1980 wrote: »

The notice is given at the start of the tenancy so that after the 6/12 months the landlord has already given notice to quit.

This is standard on all lettings.

Not all lettings. Just ones with under-educated landlords or (more probably) letting agents.

This section 21 will not be valid if it was served before the deposit was protected (in one of the three schemes) and the prescribed information served.

And it is not a "notice to quit". It is a notice that the Landlord intends to seek possession. The only things that end an AST are:

1) Tenant leaving at the end of the fixed term (no legal need to give notice, but it is courteous to do so). If your tenancy starts on (say) 16 March, and is for six months, as long as you leave on (or before) 15 September, and pay rent until the end of the fixed term, then that ends the tenancy.

2) Tenant giving appropriate notice and leaving after the fixed term ends. If you do not renew your tenancy (which you do not have to do), and you remain in possession after (using dates above) 15 September, then you enter into what is called a Statutory Periodic Tenancy (SPT). This means that the tenancy carries on on the same terms as in the fixed term, and the tenant is obliged to give one month's notice - to end at the end of a rental term. If you give notice on, say, 14 October, your last date would be 15 November, but if you give notice on 17 October, it would be 15 December.

3) The Landlord applies to Court for a possession order. Issuing a valid section 21 notice is one of the first steps to doing this. A section 21 notice is a "no fault" notice. It means that you haven't necessarily done anything wrong, but that the Landlord would like possession. If you haven't paid the rent (or have done other things in breach of the tenancy terms), then the Landlord can apply for possession following a section 8 notice.

ETA: While I was posting an essay, others were more succinct!

panickymum

tbs624 wrote: »

Your LL/LA is a fool. It is often the case that S21s are served early on in a tenancy but........

For a S21 Notice of intent to repossess (not a NTQ) to be valid the LL needs to be able to show that it has been served after:

(a)the tenancy agreement was signed, otherwise there is no tenancy in existence at the time of service
(b) any tenancy deposit given by the T has been scheme registered and the scheme's prescribed information given to the T

It should be a S21(1) (b) btw if for a Fixed term tenancy

If a valid notice is served what it means is that the LL *can* proceed straight to court for a possession order the day after the Fixed Term expiry, if the T has not moved out. T does not actually have to go until the court order is obtained and bailiff enforcement is used, if necessary.

However, many LLs and Ts continue with the same tenancy after the initial FT even where a S21 is in place.

LAs like to have the S21 in place because they can use it to apply pressure for the T to sign up for a further fixed term rather than the tenancy continuing on a month to month basis, under a statutory periodic agreement. It is also useful where the T turns out to be a wrong 'un and the LL really does need to evict.

Hi again

Apologies yes it is a Section 21 (1) (b) Notice Requiring Posession.

It is signed and dated as of friday 16th March! I haven't even paid the deposit yet!

Thanks for all the comments. to be fair I have rented a different property through the same LA for the past two and a half years and they have always been very fair so maybe I am worring unneccessarily. I just wondered if it was common and that I really should sign it.

With thanks

tbs624

Anyone can set themselves up in business as an LA without any specific training, qualification or expertise.

Many Ts in your situation would simply keep quiet for now and let the LA think that they have a valid S21 in place. Do keep the dated and signed copy somewhere safe.

RAS

Yep

Keep the invalid "S21" with the details of the tenancy protection scheme and your LL will find that he needs to serve notice properly if he tries to move you out. Serves him/her right.